Help getting trot lateral work more forward?

[Amado]

I am back to feeling like I can get serious about riding after two years in far northern Maine with no indoor arena and 6 months of snow on the ground each year. We have moved back to Montana and I’m boarding at a place with a small but fairly wide indoor, and a good sized (80 x 190–ish) outdoor. When I finally got Rico here in August, it had been about 10 months since I’d been in the saddle (snow had only just left my Maine arena when I sent Rico to Montana so I could pack and we could move, so I didn’t ride at all in the spring or summer).

ANYWAY Here we are, and it’s been a couple of months of riding , and I’m finally feeling like I might actually be able to do this again, but the little bits of trot lateral work that we are starting to do are just not feeling forward enough, and I’m wondering if any of you have some exercises or patterns to ride that might help us?

Here he is in the outdoor arena, it’s a bit rustic, but the footing is what is there naturally, sand mostly sand mixed with dirt, almost no rocks, and it’s really pretty nice.

[kande50]

What a change. I went from CO when I was in college, to California for a few years, and now I'm back in MA again, but I have an indoor so can't use winter as an excuse if I don't want to ride in the winter.

AFA the lateral work, I've been trying to do a few steps of lateral work, and then going right into a more forward and active trot--and then back to a few steps of lateral work. I've just started doing that, and haven't been all that successful at it because once I get trotting around I forget to go back to the lateral steps. (I'd like to blame that on old age, but it's probably just that I'm easily distracted). But that just seems like it might be a good strategy for getting the idea across.

Something I have figured out though, is that I need to slow him down after we lengthen, because if we're too forward and active it seems to block him. And I think that might be because he needs to slow down to collect? Although I'm not sure how that fits in with them needing to be able to collect to be able to extend?

[Dresseur]

So, lateral work by nature tends to suck some of the forward out. Also, if you happen to have a horse that likes to hover a bit in the trot, they can't hover and stiffen in the back when bending is introduced, so I find that those horses like to slow more than others.

So, before going into any of my lateral work, I test forward and back responses and do a bunch of circles where I go forward and back on the circle. That way, they are already thinking of forward while bending. The other thing is that within the lateral work, you should be able to test towards a medium at any point. If you don't have that response, I go after the hind legs with a quick tap of the spur or a quick tap of the whip. This sometimes needs to get rinsed and repeated before they get the memo that slowing while bending is not on the table as an option. I also refresh the trot on every short side. I find that I used to just cruise through short sides while my trot got more and more terminal. Now, I use it as an opportunity to say hey, get back up here with the same energy that we began the exercise with.

One thing that you have to be careful with when going to mediums within lateral work is that the horse doesn't drift off the wall or flatten and run. So, when I'm specifically working on that type of response, I get myself a marker or a wall so that I can keep myself and my horse honest about drifting. I also keep the hindquarters or shoulder (for SI or HI) right on that wall or marker so that I know that the horse is not just swinging out and getting leg yieldy within the movement.

Hope that helps!

[khall]

There are two ways I approach this, one is to do transitions within the lateral work (like T,W,T in SI) so that they know they can slow down and pick it back up again. The other is to straighten after a few strides of lateral work and freshen i.e. go forward on the straight way then go back to the lateral work.

After a discussion here on the training forum I have also incorporated SF in T, C, T transitions.

[Amado]

Oh thank you all, this is super helpful!

[Ryeissa]

circle during the lateral work, or do an arc, if you need to refresh. It can help refresh both forward and outside rein contact.

[Dresseur]

Rye, yes, that is super advice! I forgot to mention doing circles during the lateral work. I do a lot of those and it helps.

[kande50]

So, lateral work by nature tends to suck some of the forward out. Also, if you happen to have a horse that likes to hover a bit in the trot, they can't hover and stiffen in the back when bending is introduced, so I find that those horses like to slow more than others.

Mine lifts his entire body and hovers when he gets confused when I want him to bend. If I try to use the inside rein to bend him he just gets higher, or tries to get higher, and if I try to leg him forward he puts more energy into bouncing higher. My fault, because I've rewarded him for it in the past, so no way I'm going to punish him, but I did just figure out that all I need to do is lift the inside rein and he'll bend his neck, and once he bends his neck he'll drop back down and go forward.

I'm hoping that lifting the inside rein may help fix the problem I had last ride with him cutting the corners, too. I'll find out tomorrow, and if it works the way I think it's going to work it'll fix the one remaining issue I wanted to fix before I move along to spending more time in canter. I'm hoping that canter will be easier because I don't think his crookedness will be as big an issue in canter.

I don't have a problem with him slowing once he gets bent, but changing the bend on smaller arcs will shut him down. And of course, lateral work, which should be collecting, so I'm thinking should slow them down, since collection is shorter, higher strides, isn't it?

[Dresseur]

Mine lifts his entire body and hovers when he gets confused when I want him to bend. If I try to use the inside rein to bend him he just gets higher, or tries to get higher, and if I try to leg him forward he puts more energy into bouncing higher. My fault, because I've rewarded him for it in the past, so no way I'm going to punish him, but I did just figure out that all I need to do is lift the inside rein and he'll bend his neck, and once he bends his neck he'll drop back down and go forward.

This sounds like going slow and bouncing rather than a true hover trot which is where the horse braces it's back and just kind of goes but you can't adjust anything. If you are bending the horse through the ribs, it breaks up that stiffness in the back. May be a difference of how you and I are defining hovering.

I'm hoping that lifting the inside rein may help fix the problem I had last ride with him cutting the corners, too.

This may or may not work. For horses that cut corners, I come off the wall (like ride closer to quarterline) and then leg yield into the corner to make sure they are not leaning on my inside leg. I find that often, it's not a rein issue, it's a leaning against the rider's leg issue. If it's really bad, or if the horse glosses through corners, I do a transition down and walk through the corner, sometimes with a leg yield deeper in to teach the horse to wait for me.

And of course, lateral work, which should be collecting, so I'm thinking should slow them down, since collection is shorter, higher strides, isn't it?

Yea, like I said, lateral work bleeds impulsion by it's nature. BUT, it should not actually slow down. The tempo of a (GOOD) piaffe should be the same as the tempo of a (GOOD) passage, should be the same as a (GOOD) extension, should be the same as a (GOOD) collected trot. The energy level should increase because of the shorter, higher arc.

[kande50]

it should not actually slow down. The tempo of a (GOOD) piaffe should be the same as the tempo of a (GOOD) passage, should be the same as a (GOOD) extension, should be the same as a (GOOD) collected trot. The energy level should increase because of the shorter, higher arc.

I'm glad I asked, because I was thinking speed and you were describing tempo.

I have the hovering on video and will post it to see if we're describing the same thing. My horse does get stiff through the body when he does it, but I thought that was because he needed to stiffen to lift himself up. But then I saw that his hinds were hovering/pausing and realized that I didn't want to encourage that so stopped rewarding him for it.

[Chisamba]

Actually, I think lateral work comes more forward when we are careful to adjust the horses position without shortening the neck. Somewhere a long time ago a clinician told me you have to push your hands forward to make room for the hind end to step under.

It's an over simplification, because the horse must be able to reach without losing balance.

But the idea remains, if I lose impulsion, I try to push my hands forward, if the horse falls on the forehand, i didnt have enough connection behind the saddle anyway.

The other reminder. Dont forget the other leg. In shoulder in its easy to forget your outside leg provides impulsion, and in half pass it's easy to forget the inside leg maintains balance so that the outside leg of the rider can both give direction and maintain forward.

I too like doing a few steps of good quality, then straight and medium gaits, and then back to your lateral

[khall]

chisamba I've been thinking more along why some horses (because not all will slow with lateral work but instead it powers them up i.e. coils the spring) do slow during lateral work. I've owned and ridden both types. Rip is one to slow during lateral so I have had to approach him to build the power before and during the lateral work. Keep the lateral work shorter until they build the strength necessary to keep the energy in the work. For the ones who power up during lateral work I use the mediums to let the power out or use lateral work to build the carrying ability for even more collection (piaffe). So IMO it depends on the individual horse if lateral work slows them down.

[Tsavo]

Amado, wow that looks like perfect land for horses! Their hearts must leap at the great expanses. Sounds like great footing too.

In re laterals and losing impulsion, I remind myself that straightness is not natural. Moving into a bend is hard. They have to get the idea they can do it. Once you convince them it is possible it is easier. Then have the focus to ride it correctly every time. All riding is training. For me, focus is among the hardest aspects.

[DJR]

Another thing that I find helpful is to use the line I’m on to encourage a rhythmic, swinging gait first (training scale), then introduce the lateral work gradually. For a green horse, this means shallow angles for the lines when introducing leg yield and this line can become gradually steeper as the horse gains education about LY, gains condition, and gains suppleness. For higher level horses, it means that when I turn onto a line I remember tempo & rhythm first and then add the lateral aspects. This happens fairly quickly, and eventually simultaneously. But if my horse starts sucking back in a movement then I go back to the line, tempo & rhythm and re-add the lateral work.