Suggestions for a horse who really runs during flying changes

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SJS
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Suggestions for a horse who really runs during flying changes

Postby SJS » Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:00 am

Hi everyone, hope you are keeping well, I have joined the forum hoping for some help or suggestions with an issue I have run into.
My horse is an almost full TB, who I have trained up to medium level (I guess 3rd level in the US, I’m not sure). We have all the required trot and walk work to compete up to PSG, and are very confirmed in all of it. Our only issue currently is with flying changes.
It’s not that he can’t do a clean change, he’s very good at them... when I have a lesson with my trainer once a week, the changes are almost exclusively clean. We have not had many issues there. The problem however, lies with anticipation and speed. We were always very confirmed in counter canter, with flexion and counter flexion coming very easily to my horse. Now however, we have a problem. For example, If I come across the short diagonal In collected canter, as I ask him for a slight flexion and put my inside leg on the ask him to do a FC, he will either 1.) take off at top speed, and not do the change at all, or 2.) will do a clean change, but at the same time heading off at top speed often accompanied by a lack of steering

I’ve read and researched a lot at this point but there isn’t much out there about this issue and I’m getting a little disheartened. We did only start to do FC about 6 weeks ago, so i know in the grand scheme of things that’s not a very long time, however I would like a few suggestions If possible, if anyone has had this problem before? It goes without saying that my horse is and always has been extremely hot and sensitive to the leg so I think he is slightly overreacting perhaps when I do ask him to change.

blob
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Re: Suggestions for a horse who really runs during flying changes

Postby blob » Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:05 pm

I'm having opposite problems with my horse's changes. Haha! But here are some thoughts that might be helpful...

It's not that uncommon for horses to get excited about and anticipate the changes! So don't get discouraged, esp since this is still a relatively new thing for him! Does he do this when you take lessons as well?

When he runs, how easy is it to bring him back down? If it's easy, on the times he changes, I would bring him to walk and reward him and give a little break until he starts expecting that after a change you walk a few strides later and that's just part of the routine.

If he starts building up speed even before you ask in anticipation, I would also thrown in diagonals where you don't ask for a change and just stay cc. Or even where they start to do a diagonal and then instead do a canter circle a few strides in. This way he won't think that every time you come down the diagonal you change.

Lastly, you could also try changes on a slightly different line that might give you a bit more control, such as a half 10 meter and then a short diagonal line back to the rail. You could ask on that short diagonal or when you reach the rail. But that half 10 meter before and the shorter line might make it easier to control his exuberance.

SJS
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Re: Suggestions for a horse who really runs during flying changes

Postby SJS » Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:05 pm

Thanks very much for your reply! Yes, he does this in lessons also however my trainer is not overly concerned by it. My current plan of action has been do the change then bring him to halt as quickly as I can, and give him a treat.

Your suggestions are all excellent and I will be trying them tomorrow! Most of the time we do very few changes and just keep asking for a walk transition as soon as he starts to run forward. Anticipation seems to be the big thing, Along with getting him to accept my leg when I ask for the change rather than running from it. I think I would almost prefer the problem you are having!!

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Re: Suggestions for a horse who really runs during flying changes

Postby blob » Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:20 pm

SJS wrote: I think I would almost prefer the problem you are having!!


We can trade! Seems like I always want the problems I don't have :lol:

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Re: Suggestions for a horse who really runs during flying changes

Postby Dresseur » Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:39 pm

I agree with much of what Blob is saying. When we taught Willie changes, he was a rearrange your back and take off kind of dude. We did a ton of simple changes with him, and asked for changes in different areas along the diagonal so lesson the anticipation. However, the best way to stop the blasting through the aids is if you have access to an arena with a wall (like an indoor)... do a figure 8 with a change in the middle. True figure 8 with 2, 20 meter circles so that you are crossing X basically facing directly into the wall... the wall backs them off without you having to haul on the bridle. Just make sure you keep the horse straight so that they don't start doing the change and drift which allows taking off. It took a while, but it solved the issue for Willie without rearranging his teeth after every change.

SJS
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Re: Suggestions for a horse who really runs during flying changes

Postby SJS » Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:45 pm

I agree, the arena I ride in at the moment is a big, open 25m x 65m and seems to encourage running... He's always been a bit strong and hot in there so I've always found indoor arenas or slightly smaller outdoors back him up a lot more. That definitely could be the key with him I think, so I will definitely hire somewhere out in the next few days. Thanks for the excellent suggestions :)

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Re: Suggestions for a horse who really runs during flying changes

Postby tlkidding » Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:46 pm

Echoing Blob and Dresseur suggestions - I've used them all.

In addition to a true figure 8, I've also done a figure 8 in the short end, so you canter through the short end and start a 20 m circle. Before you cross center line on the open side of the circle, turn back toward the short end, get straight, ask for the change, then turn the other direction. You are basically doing a 10 meter circle to 10 meter circle figure 8. I used this with a few very handy or smaller horses that could take advantage of the bigger figure 8 or a diagonal to pull/charge through the aids.

SJS
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Re: Suggestions for a horse who really runs during flying changes

Postby SJS » Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:56 pm

This is a good suggestion, especially as you said, for a small horse like my own who can get away very easily. A combination of all of these suggestions will most likely yield the result im looking for :)
I’m definitely envious of People who play with asking for a flying change and the horse gives a nearly test ready change with no fuss!!

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Re: Suggestions for a horse who really runs during flying changes

Postby Moutaineer » Mon Aug 24, 2020 5:04 pm

SJS wrote:I’m definitely envious of People who play with asking for a flying change and the horse gives a nearly test ready change with no fuss!!


I think those are few and far between--or they get that once or twice because the horse is surprised by the ask, then it all goes to hell in a handbasket for a while as the horse goes "yeehaw! I get to LEAP in the air!!!!--shall I do it now? or now? or now? :)

Changes are our current Nemesis as well. We have all the other canter work coming along nicely, but that left to right change... not so much. We've decided to leave it for a while and use some other strength building exercises like canter piris to build confidence that he actually can do it without all that fuss.

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Re: Suggestions for a horse who really runs during flying changes

Postby Tanga » Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:03 pm

Good suggestions by everyone. I think in general, changes take about a year for horses to really get them, so I wouldn't worry about it being unusual.

To add to what everyone said, do that, but also prepare the same way every time, and then randomly do a simple change or a flying change. The idea is that he is running because he felt he didn't have enough impulsion, so is getting it with speed. Preparing to collect into the walk gives him that implusion to either collect and walk or change.

I always try to go back to what conditioning issue is there that is causing the problem? When I have trouble doing something in my workout class, I can clearly see I'm not conditioned in that area and need to strengthen to be able to do that. I always try to go back to that in the horses, even though I forget it ALL of the time. So think about why he needs the speed. Besides the mental anticipation, it's also a little hard for him. So besides the canter walk transitions, also think of forward canter, canter on the spot, and repeat over and over. This will help strengthen him and be more ridable in feeling OK going forward and coming back and not getting anticipatory about it.

My Appy (who got to FEI) was always super easy on changes. All of the rest of the horses I've ridden take time and figuring it out except my younger one, who did prefect changes from the start, and when I started asking her for one tempis, just did them. Most horses are not like that. Her older sister is certainly not. I have found TB's or those with a lot of TB blood are a LOT easier to teach changes because they have the quickness.

SJS
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Re: Suggestions for a horse who really runs during flying changes

Postby SJS » Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:00 pm

Interesting point, thank you for your insight. I do have no doubt that the changes will come, and I’d imagine he will be fairly comfortable doing a single change quite soon, simply based on how quickly he understood doing clean changes consistently.
I agree that it’s a combination of anticipation, difficulty accepting my leg aid And a need for more impulsion. His canter is fairly flat and economical so I’m unsurprised that he feels more impulsion is necessary.
I think some of the issues are related to me, he was my first horse after moving on from ponies, and had never done any dressage prior to buying him when he was 3... as a result it’s always been the blind leading the blind except for a lesson once a week when we can. A rider with more flying change experience would definitely have less issues I’m sure, but I suppose as long as I haven’t taught him to do a late change everything else can be fixed

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Re: Suggestions for a horse who really runs during flying changes

Postby Chisamba » Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:25 pm

I start with the counter canter, when it is nice and relaxed i ask for a change, if Kimba rushes i simply put her on a 10m circle and I do not let her drift into a bigger circle, ten or eight ! when she has a nice collected canter i transition to trot or walk and reward.

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Re: Suggestions for a horse who really runs during flying changes

Postby SJS » Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:36 pm

Update from today’s session. Definitely better than yesterday however obviously no immediately cures to the running.
I employed the tactic of 2 10 metre circles ridden in a figure of 8 pattern. At the centre of the figure of 8 I placed 2 poles acting as a sort of a chute for him to go through and perform the change. We did this as he has a tendency to change and drop the shoulder on the new canter lead, which means we end up veering off sharply rather than actually staying on the line of travel. This seemed to help a lot. Along with this I felt my aids were lacking slightly, I don’t think my inside leg is supportive enough, so I concentrated on getting it right into his elbow and asking for the FC that way. One direction is quite good, however the other direction I am still struggling to get the leg into his elbow enough, and this possibly contributes to some of the issues we have. Today was still fairly successful, and when we come back to trot or walk for a stretching break he shows great forwardness and relaxation, so I’d imagine the changes aren’t stressing him terribly.
I also played with your method chisamba, and did successful changes from the counter canter on the easier rein. We failed to do one the other direction however and stayed on the small figure of 8 exercise for that.

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Re: Suggestions for a horse who really runs during flying changes

Postby Josette » Fri Aug 28, 2020 3:32 pm

I like the short videos from this trainer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_nSQPlAGLo

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Re: Suggestions for a horse who really runs during flying changes

Postby Dresseur » Sun Aug 30, 2020 1:03 am

I watched the video - imo, that much bend in the canter due to the circles and the counter canter circles invites late changes - which is exactly what she was getting. The horse has to stay straight if you're doing a figure 8, or stay straight on short diagonals.

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Re: Suggestions for a horse who really runs during flying changes

Postby blob » Sun Aug 30, 2020 4:05 pm

Dresseur wrote:I watched the video - imo, that much bend in the canter due to the circles and the counter canter circles invites late changes - which is exactly what she was getting. The horse has to stay straight if you're doing a figure 8, or stay straight on short diagonals.


My trainer always tells me to think of the figure 8 for changes as an infinity symbol rather than a '8'. It's a helpful visual for me because an '8' makes me want to do two circles with a stride or two only of straightness between. If I think infinity symbol, I am riding short diagonal lines with half circles.


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