Yawning after work

[StraightForward]

This has happened a few times with Tesla, that when I get off, she starts yawning. She would yawn readily when I started doing little neck bending exercises with her on the ground (I was trying to do Masterson work on her, but she would bash me with her head, so I had to do use a bridle and do a hybrid of flexion and MM).

With the riding, it seems to happen when she is being sticky, and I am keeping her on the bit until she starts going forward again. She also starts softly working her tongue, which she sometimes seems to suck up and hold. Overall I'm sure it's a good thing, but I'm wondering if others have had horses do this, and if they have thoughts on what is happening mentally or physiologically. It seems like I could induce this reaction if it might help her process the training, but on the other hand, I don't want to send her off to lala land where she is even less interested in going forward.

[khall]

Yawning is a good thing. It releases endorphins and helps release the TMJ. Yes I’ve had this happen with a couple that I work with. Gaila used to every time I wih with her. Juliet did for awhile too. She had a problematic connection with the bit especially right side. Much better now. Still Yawn’s occasionally when putting her bridle on.

[heddylamar]

Yawning, blowing, and licking are all signs of relaxation.

When we were just starting Maia, she would blow after about 10 minutes under saddle. After that it was like "Yay! No one's eating dirt today"

Now, I use that moment to signal when we can really get to work. If I ask for too much pre-blow (shoulder in, trot leg yield, canter-trot transitions), Maia gets cranky. After? She's very willing.

[StraightForward]

Yawning is a good thing. It releases endorphins and helps release the TMJ. Yes I’ve had this happen with a couple that I work with. Gaila used to every time I wih with her. Juliet did for awhile too. She had a problematic connection with the bit especially right side. Much better now. Still Yawn’s occasionally when putting her bridle on.

Right - so I'm wondering about maybe riding 10 minutes, then getting off and doing the flexions to get yawning, and hopping back on to see if she is better, or if she's more relaxed and wants to take a nap.

Yeah, the blowing/breathing. I think part of Tesla's issue is that she holds her breath, then she starts grunting, and finally lets go and breathes. Sometimes I trot her in hand before I get on to encourage her to breath properly.

The fact that this happens when she is going on a shorter rein is what I'm trying to figure out. Annabelle, doesn't yawn after work, but she seems to relax more going forward in a long frame. Other than being chestnut mares, they are so very different!

[Ryeissa]

See what the other parts of her body are "telling you"- if everything else is relaxed it is likely a release of tension.

[khall]

SF I work all of mine in hand before riding. I don’t do the flexion s very much any more but do the lateral exercises to tell me if they are ok in the bridle. If I feel there is an issue I can always go back to flexions in hand

Last year when Jillian was here she suggested doing at least 10 minutes of work that stimulates the postural muscles before riding.

[Tanga]

Quilla is a massive yawner. She yawns all of the time, usually when she knows she's going to be ridden and I'm about to put the bridle on. I see it as her sort of stretching and getting ready and opening her mouth for the bridle. Her mom and sister don't do it even though they live together and usually pick up each other's habits.

Just a thought. Sometimes when I have time, I do sort of head stretches and movement with them on the ground. If you feel she is stuck, maybe something like this will work. I sort of grab low on the halter and behind the ears and wiggle them head side to side, sort of like me when I crack my neck, bringing the nose up sideways and the poll lower sideways. I do it to both sides and back and forth. They LOVE it. If Tesla is stiff or stuck, maybe this would help.

[StraightForward]

Thanks all. I will experiment today with getting her yawning and then doing some riding afterwards and see what happens. I was surprised to see it yesterday because she kept stalling out and it wasn't exactly a relaxing ride (for me), but she is not perturbed by things that would bother most horses.

[Flight]

I find that a big release like that can indicate there was a fair bit of tension before hand, so whatever you were doing might have been quite challenging. Nice that she can release like that. Norsey does it sometimes after some 'harder work' when we walk break.

[blob]

I know body workers are always working for yawns--which is signify there has been a release.

MM also sometimes yawns after work and I always wonder if that's because it was a really GOOD ride that helped her work her body well and now she is relaxed and loose. Or if it was a really TOUGH/bad ride and now she is just relieved it is done.

[khall]

Worked Gaila just in hand today and started out with several yawns. Been awhile since she’s done that. She’s been a school pony for a couple of riders may be the difference when I work her.

Pretty interesting stuff


Fun fact. If you ever watched short track speed skating and Apollo Ono. He would skate around before a match yawning widely. He did it deliberately to help his skating

[StraightForward]

I find that a big release like that can indicate there was a fair bit of tension before hand, so whatever you were doing might have been quite challenging. Nice that she can release like that. Norsey does it sometimes after some 'harder work' when we walk break.

I think that is good insight.

Today I did my flexion stuff and some walking/trotting around the arena, then put her on my SureFoot physio pads and did a little more flexing and the Masterson technique of sliding the hand in front of the scapula. I also slipped her a couple sugar cubes to get the mouth working, and she did some almost-yawns before I got on. We had a better ride and she was chewing softly at the end and seemed nice and relaxed, but no big yawns like yesterday.

Coincidentally, I put Annabelle on the SureFoot pads before riding today and she started yawning almost instantly, which she doesn't do very frequently, or only after being on the pads for 10+ minutes.

[Hayburner]

Tanga, my mare also yawns quite a bit before I put the bridle on. I give her a few GumBits , let her chew them up and let her yawn as much as she wants. I figure she is releasing her jaw which is a good thing!

[chantal]

Mikey will blow when he's ready to get ready to work, that's always been his signal. He yawns at times, usually after really hard work. He works well most of the time, but the yawning isn't consistent.

[StraightForward]

Posting mostly for my own recollection: Yesterday I trotted her in hand and got some good yawns with the flexions before getting on. Gave her a sugar cube, which created a monster who had little interest in standing on the SureFoot pads. She stopped several times during the ride and was difficult to get going, but also started snorting and letting go nicely at one point. Offered canter 3-4 times up the long side. Did a couple almost-yawns at the end, but not full yawns. So far data points to her having 3-4 good yawns to give, but I'm not convinced that getting them before the ride helps improve the ride much, though I think she is mouthing the bit a little more, which is good since she tends to hold it and get a little stuck in the mouth.

[StraightForward]

Yesterday she stood on the pads for a couple minutes while grooming/tacking. I didn't do any flexions, but made some progress on getting her to let me balance and bend her through a corner she has been having trouble making in the trot. I stopped after she finally trotted around that corner without slowing down too much, and LOTS of yawns moving her head in both directions before I even dismounted.

So I don't know if it's making a difference in the work, but it seems that she yawns less at the end if I do the flexions and get some of the releases happening before the ride. However, overall, she is making more progress in general with the riding since the yawning has been happening more consistently.

[Ryeissa]

If its excessive then I would consult a vet. 4 yaws isn't excessive. Sounds like you have a handle on it!

[StraightForward]

I didn't count, but she did maybe six? It just lasted a minute or two, and then she seemed quite content and relaxed. It seems that some of the tension she had about allowing me to be in charge and help her out is starting to dissipate. She doesn't show insecurity in a way I'm used to with other horses, but I think it's still there, manifesting in some tension. I'm definitely learning a lot from training this one!

[khall]

That’s great SF. I’ve never looked at yawning as a bad thing. Some do it more than others. Gaila has been yawning when working her in hand here recently. Under saddle she is very good in the bridle and has been for a long time.

Mark taught a bit different in that we focused on the head neck and jaw first before asking for forward energy. He always felt if you could release their tension and address their straightness then the horse is more likely to go forward on their own. Worked for my WBs to a point. I still have to have my own internal energy bubbling in the WBs where I don’t on Joplin

[StraightForward]

Thanks, I do have Mark's book and DVD. I use a lot of what he shows in the DVD, along with Masterson's technique of touching spots along the neck following the cervical vertebrae and staying on the spots where I get a blink. I've played a couple times with that and putting her front feet on the SureFoot pads, and coincidentally, Felicitas von Neumann-Cosel posted on FB about this exact technique and forward/down releases last night.

She is kind of like a diesel engine that takes a while to warm up, but once she gets going, she kind of gets in the zone and I just let her cruise. Hopping off and doing some flexions in hand might be a good tool though, for when she gets stuck.

[Anne]

Good discussion thanks everyone! For my difficult guy, yawning is a definite release of tension. We are still having issues with him bucking when first girthed up, (surcingle, not even touching his belly when he is relaxed, but if he tenses, it tightens, and he often launches). Our approach at the moment is to buckle it barely touching him, then just wait...... and wait.... eventually he'll make some small movement with his neck, and then often go into a big lick/yawn, and then he will walk off OK, and we'll do a few steps, then take the surcingle off. It's slow, but I think we're making progress.....

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