Tracking up in the young horse

[Lipsmackerpony88]

Still doing ground work only with Lynx because the saddle fitter kept rescheduling. She's supposed to come this Sunday fingers crossed! I refuse to ride a horse in a saddle that I just know doesn't fit.

But I notice that he really just doesn't track up in the trot. It's definitely his weakest gait. Because of a ridiculous amount of rain and snow we have been confined to the indoor arena for a while. The footing is really less than ideal and gets very compact. I did get him some hoof boots for the fronts only but I might need to grab some for the hinds as well.

But he is even more butt high lately, everybody just keeps commenting that he just looks like he's in a growth spurt right now.

Obviously I know he's basically got clean x-rays everywhere from the PPE. Right now I'm assuming that because he's butt high and also living in a ridiculously muddy paddock ( they can get out if the mud but to get water it's walking through 2 feet of mud) isn't helping his trot quality.

I'm thinking I should just continue to keep things really low-key while he's growing so much? Or should I continue to try and get him to get really through and loosen his back on the lunge? Also doing some in-hand work in the bridle.

I am going to have a body worker out as well. I think partly it's just his breed, he's just never going to be a huge mover at the trot. But that doesn't mean he can't be more engaged behind.

I'd love to hear people's thoughts on this that have raised multiple young horses. I know he really isn't the most fantastic mover for a dressage horse but his mind is making it so fun that I'm okay with it. I just want to help him out as much as I can.

[khall]

I’m a big proponent of in hand work. We start lateral work in hand early in the bridle sometimes caveson if needed. There are lots of videos out there of the work I follow. This is a great resource. You can do their online program or just follow them on FB they put lots of free videos out there.

I learned the in hand from Mark Russell. He also has both dvd and a book out. I’m continuing with Cedar. She adds new bits to my notebook each time I work with her. She has a YouTube channel and FB page CP equine development.

[Chisamba]

young horses rarely get enough exercise in domestic situations. like with human children movement is good for bones soft tissue heart bloid circulation and everything. non domestic horses may cover 10 to 20 miles a day. so move your horse. take him for walks and I mean walk a.mile over a few hills . trot him over a few ground poles. start to supple him so he grows up ambidextrous. just avoid too much small circles or weight bearing. poles are lovely for tracking up

[Lipsmackerpony88]

Khall, I'll look up Mark's stuff, thanks. We have done very basic in hand work in the snaffle with the Dressage trainer. Right now just asking him to move and cross his hind end, same with the shoulder. At first he had no idea what we wanted but is catching in quickly. It seems like he really thinks deeply with this work, lots of licks and chews.

I guess next step would be teaching him leg yield and some shoulder fore? I'll look for guidelines on this. I just never want to ask for too much but this type of work seems like it's hard to overdo it.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

Chisamba that sounds good. He's going into training next month and the focus will mostly be trail rides, trailering to new places and pole work.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

I guess another question I have is that the lack of engagement and tracking up at the trot shouldn't be really a huge cause for concern right now right? I mean I just vetted the snot out of him and he is in a pretty gangly awkward stage.

[Flight]

My big horse never tracks up, sometimes their shape makes it hard for them to do so. I've listened to some good discussions on tracking up and sometimes I think it's not the be all and end all. I personally wouldn't worry, give him 12 months of work and see what happens then.
Starting lateral work to help develop balance and strength and not pushing him over tempo just to try and get that overtrack, I feel is more important.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

My big horse never tracks up, sometimes their shape makes it hard for them to do so. I've listened to some good discussions on tracking up and sometimes I think it's not the be all and end all. I personally wouldn't worry, give him 12 months of work and see what happens then.
Starting lateral work to help develop balance and strength and not pushing him over tempo just to try and get that overtrack, I feel is more important.

That's kind of what I'm thinking. He just seems like he's a in a bit of an awkward stage and very actively growing. And of course he's had no dressage type training at all not even foundation-wise. So just working on balance right now is a big thing.

[Chisamba]

imho the abilitybto.lower the hip is more important than tracking up, but the fabulous training and first level scores are rare. by second and third it's not as obvious

[StraightForward]

My big horse never tracks up, sometimes their shape makes it hard for them to do so. I've listened to some good discussions on tracking up and sometimes I think it's not the be all and end all. I personally wouldn't worry, give him 12 months of work and see what happens then.
Starting lateral work to help develop balance and strength and not pushing him over tempo just to try and get that overtrack, I feel is more important.

So much this. Tracking up is more conformation-dependent, and overrated, IMO. If a horse naturally overtracks in the walk, that's great, but horses that are longer in the back and shorter in the leg just aren't going to track up as much. It's not even physics, just simple geometry.

My previous instructor nearly ran poor Annabelle off her feet trying to make her track up, and it was really counter-productive. She is QH, so probably some similarities with your boy, and we focus more on the forward, and now we are focusing more on getting the hind legs to spend a little longer on the ground to develop the carry in the trot. She has to develop that before getting an honest lengthening. Now what I do think is important is getting the hind legs to step more under the center of gravity, regardless of where the front hoof has left a track. With the horses that have less natural amplitude in the gaits, it can take some time to develop, but I think the question I would be asking is whether progress is being made towards the hind legs landing close to where your center is in the saddle.

In the free walk, part of tracking up is whether the barrel is swinging side to side to make room for the hind leg, so that is one thing you might look at. But use your own horse's baseline, not some arbitrary level of overtrack that might make more sense for a horse with a shorter back, longer legs and more uphill build.

Here is a little montage I put together of the changes in Annabelle's trot over about seven months of her 5 year old year. I need to update it, but I think it gives a good sense of how an average young horse can develop engagement and strength over a period of consistent work. You can see by July that her hind leg is stepping almost exactly under my seat, but it certainly didn't start out that way.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

Straightforward, that totally makes sense! Lynx does have a longer back and of course shorter legs (he's only 15 hands.) And definitely butt high at the moment which I'm sure isn't helping at all.

He has moments where he steps under better, it's definitely related to if he's relaxed in his back or not. He's just figuring this all out, he definitely needs a helping hand.

Thanks so much for the photos! What a difference! That's so inspiring to see. Lynx is definitely looking more like the January photo right now.

We will stay the course. The trainer I'm working with is a big believer in not running young horses off their feet, balance is a priority so I'm thankful for that.

[exvet]

Having ridden and competed for years on a welsh cob that had a longer back than legs, it's true that there are some horses that simply physically can't track up and/or over track to meet the definitions and expectations of the higher scores in dressage. Training and achieving relaxation and coming through the back will make things better and become more of a pay off at the higher levels; but, there is a ceiling for some. Junior is more of a ?????? in some ways because everyone just shakes their head at his walk. He simply does not and cannot overtrack at the walk. With strength and engagement he doesn't have this trouble at the trot; but, I've learned not to sweat it. His disposition and try makes his pure but not gifted walk something that I can accept. Of course I'll keep on working and using exercises, poles, etc to try to improve it but to lose sleep or place more stress on him is counter productive. Brandon, however, who is butt high and very gangly has the walk of a hooker. He achieves 2 hoof print over stride at the walk with ease and often when he's stalking one of my PITA dogs LOL. His legs are longer than his back but it's also about the hip/femur angle and natural suppleness. Junior is built and moves like a brick shit house. Every move speaks and screams power but with little 'give'. Brandon moves like a cat on the prowl, very supple and athletic yet appears to be one who a pony/horse like Junior could knock over with one push (never happens even when they're play fighting). Dressage done correctly will allow major transformations but/and I've learned over the years that it's the pictures like those posted that are the real prize, reward and testament as to how successful we are as riders/trainers ..........because in the end we're all trying to improve the horse that's in front of us, if we can get them to use themselves better and demonstrate in their muscling a stronger, healthier, sounder animal then that's a real quality achievement as a horseman/woman.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

Exvet, absolutely agree that it's all about improving the horse. I definitely knew that his trot was a pretty weak gait but since everything was at least pure, I felt it was okay. I enjoyed riding him and he vetted so well. I am looking forward to seeing how much we can improve him.

I will try to post photos, although the photos I have are just in the round pen as I wanted to snap some photos/video of him in the easyboots. I will have to start using my pivo though to get some video of us doing some in hand work.

[blob]

The trot is definitely the easiest gait to influence and I think one that does really shape and change over time. Maybe not a 180 or anything insane. But like SF's pictures, I think a lot of horses develop a longer stride as they gain strength and confidence and suppleness.

I also agree that tracking up isn't everything! and might be more worthwhile to think of getting engagement/activity in the hind leg than tracking under.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

Don't mind the stains. He thinks he's a pig and loves to wallow in it!

This is in the round pen which is an ideal. I can influence him a lot more on the actual lunge. But definitely needs work on engaging and staying balanced. He likes to throw himself onto his inside shoulder and counterbend. Part of that is because he's been taught to lean heavily with his western training. In part of it is because he likes to focus on what's going on everywhere else ha ha. His focus is getting a lot better as he's getting a lot more confident. Small steps of progress.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

Blob, I agree that the trot is easiest to improve. I still would like to see better quality than what I'm seeing right now but it is what it is. I think being in an awkward growth stage isn't helping anything And it's going to take time and patience.

I think some long reining would also be a great idea for him.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

In the other direction, with any absolutely disgusting stain on his hindquarters ha ha. I swear all I do is groom and bath him. I think he's going to have to live in a fly sheet! Also I have to get moved out of that mud pit.

But I think you get the idea of kind of where his balance is at and suppleness.

[StraightForward]

That looks fine and like nothing to worry about, IMO. The impression I get is that he will need to develop more strength in the thoracic sling to keep his front end up, and the hind leg will be able to step under more.

[blob]

I agree with SF! I don't think this has to do with actual hind end reach and just that there isn't room for him to reach under more until he lifts his front end. But that will come with age (getting out of his funky growth spot) and strength over time. And given that you're not even really riding him yet, I woudln't expect you to see much difference in keeping his front end up yet!

[blob]

this is an exercise that could be interesting to try with him and something you could do long-lining or even when you first start riding him as it's just at the walk

[Tanga]

I agree with what everyone says. Tracking up is more conformation, and not really an indicator. Quilla is short backed and doing GP just fine and rarely overtracks at the walk. She's fine. I would look less at the tracking up and more at the separation of the hind legs. That really shows how athletic a horse can be and that they are sound and can carry behind. I think Annabelle's pictures show that.

And I agree it really is all about getting the front end up, which isn't fair to expect at this age!

Just a thought of something you might play with. I have been doing this with Quinn because she is so tight and I think had a pulled muscle or something. Do stretches, especially lifting the hind leg forward and up. This would be good for handling in general, but also in checking and promoting evenness from side to side and helping loosen and stretch over that hind end to prepare for strengthening.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

That looks fine and like nothing to worry about, IMO. The impression I get is that he will need to develop more strength in the thoracic sling to keep his front end up, and the hind leg will be able to step under more.

Totally! He is just butt high and really figuring all this out. It will be interesting to see in 6 months what changes there are.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

Blob, what's the exercise?

Tanga, I was just thinking I should incorporate some stretches. He's really good with his feet so hopefully that stretch will be no big deal. I find that they start to enjoy it after while too.

I had to lunge him today (we were checking his hoof boots) and I noticed he starts out in a shuffle. I think part of it is tension, it's interesting to see as he relaxed how much of a change there is in his body. The balance is still on and off regardless of course. But that's more just his age.

He gets chiropractic at the end of the month too. Hopefully I get the saddle fit figured out this weekend when the fitter is out. I think riding will help. I'm a little bit more savvy in the saddle lol.

[exvet]

I will say that since I've incorporated more cavaletti work, Junior has begun to really develop a more reliable medium and has an extended. The cavaletti work helps him loosen up through his back and really pick up through the shoulder. The first pass is always ugly. He knocks half of everything down but after a couple of passes I guess he realizes I'm serious. I realize your guy isn't far enough along to put him through such paces just yet but it won't be long and you'll be able to use such exercises to help him relax over his top line and develop over it as well so that he can move his front half out of the way of his back half and better use himself.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

I will say that since I've incorporated more cavaletti work, Junior has begun to really develop a more reliable medium and has an extended. The cavaletti work helps him loosen up through his back and really pick up through the shoulder. The first pass is always ugly. He knocks half of everything down but after a couple of passes I guess he realizes I'm serious. I realize your guy isn't far enough along to put him through such paces just yet but it won't be long and you'll be able to use such exercises to help him relax over his top line and develop over it as well so that he can move his front half out of the way of his back half and better use himself.

I love cavaletti and pole work! He definitely isn't there yet but probably later in the year. Lots to do this summer

[blob]

sorry, I'm a space cadet these days--totally forgot the link. Here is the exercise: https://www.horseandriderbooks.com/pdfs ... 20Bars.pdf?

it uses raised poles/caveletti but as it's just at the walk it could be done long lining or once you get your saddle you can likely start doing something like this pretty much right away.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

sorry, I'm a space cadet these days--totally forgot the link. Here is the exercise: https://www.horseandriderbooks.com/pdfs ... 20Bars.pdf?

it uses raised poles/caveletti but as it's just at the walk it could be done long lining or once you get your saddle you can likely start doing something like this pretty much right away.

That's a very interesting exercise, thank you!!

[exvet]

I will say that since I've incorporated more cavaletti work, Junior has begun to really develop a more reliable medium and has an extended. The cavaletti work helps him loosen up through his back and really pick up through the shoulder. The first pass is always ugly. He knocks half of everything down but after a couple of passes I guess he realizes I'm serious. I realize your guy isn't far enough along to put him through such paces just yet but it won't be long and you'll be able to use such exercises to help him relax over his top line and develop over it as well so that he can move his front half out of the way of his back half and better use himself.

I love cavaletti and pole work! He definitely isn't there yet but probably later in the year. Lots to do this summer

I have to say that after the show yesterday, I think this work and the stretching exercises I do after we finish riding has made the most difference in Junior's gaits. I find that if I use the pole work to get him lifting his legs more (he's a Klutz), being careful with his footfalls and reaching over the back (most important) I am able to get much better reach and striding overall at all gaits...................his collection also benefits from it.

Other than walking over poles rather casually I haven't really introduced Brandon to work over poles and cavalettis. That will come in time.

[Shirrine]

I am doing 2nd level with Lewyn. He started with a not so nice walk and it has developed into a very nice relaxed swinging walk but unless the stars are aligned he doesn't over track. I have received 8.5 and 6 for the same walk. One judge loving his swinging relaxed walk and the other saying no overtrack. It is frustrating and I am going to have to accept it.

Shirrine