Your speciality, tell us how you do it

[Tanga]

I am totally stealing exvet's idea and making it it's own thread because I think it is such a wonderful idea.

Tell us what you think you are very good at training on horses and explain what you do that makes you so successful at it.

I think I am very good at pirouettes and tempi changes. I really think the secret to all of it is the secret to many things--conditioning and strength. I always from the beginning do a lot of forward and back with my horses and it is routine for me to do canter on the spot, extended, on the spot. The whole focus is to get them over the back and use the forward and collected and the anticipation of forward to really get them to use themselves more than they would ordinarily. After a couple of goes, they really get the feel of pushing them up into the collected, up into the extended, and coming back up into the collected (versus fall on the forehand in a big galumpf and see if you can pull the rider out of the saddle.)

This easily translates into pirouettes, where you can just take it over. And I think I have improved the pirouettes with my newfound understanding of feeling of taking the shoulders out by taking my hands up and out (or it feels like it) instead of trying to keep the inside hand in and keep them off the inside leg, which really doesn't work. Since they are so used to canter on the spot and super strong in it, it is super easy to just control the pirouette by taking it over.

I think changes have similar ideas in it. Horses that are strong and used to sitting and using their backs find changes much easier. I have always been able to put changes on horses easily until Quilla's mom and Quilla. Both of them did them, but wanted to be late behind. The secret with fixing that in Quilla was, no surprise, getting stronger! When she got a better understanding of forward and up and sitting behind, the changes improved and are mostly fixed. And maybe a natural feel of timing makes the tempis easy for me. I think most people, I know I do, find twos much easier than threes and fours because the tempo of them are easier to find. Ones are a different animal, but require a whole other level of quickness and absolute timing with everything.

Your turn!

[Ryeissa]

I get 9s on my stretching trot. I think it's just good riding and straightness. Using biomechanic principles (Mary Wanless) has been essential for me to help the horse carry over the topline

[khall]

I answered Exvet on the other thread but mine is lateral work. All lateral work from teaching greanies to established riding horses. My favorite is renvere. I like moving between them so that they stay light and on the aids.

I’m also good at riding horses a wide variety of them and figuring out how best to ride them. I’m also very good at taking instruction when I ride those schooled horses.

I’ve been blessed to be able to travel to other countries to ride and learn. I was given a great compliment by the trainer in Spain saying I was not one of the prettiest riders but that I was very effective. And the working students there told me I rode the one horse better than the trainer did. He was a hotter very sensitive horse that could not take tough riding. I loved him.

Right now I know that Joplin is going to make me a much better rider. She is so sensitive to ride and in tune with my seat that I’ve got to be so careful in how I ride her. So different from my less sensitive WBs or Juliet. If I put too much pressure in the stirrups she stops:)

[Chisamba]

My specialty is that I move the horse to the mounting block, not the mounting block to the horse.

or maybe my specialty is that I am a coward.

I suppose I should explain. If I cannot get the horse to stand, relaxed in a place, why would I risk putting my foot in a stirrup? I have no desire to ride a bolting or bucking horse. so I " fix" it before I ride it. my brothers said it was because I was a coward, but I don't believe so. i think its because I respect the horse. I believe in persuasion, education, co operation. if that makes me a coward, so be it, but it's my superpower. I don't have to ride a buck or a rear because i.persuade the horse that there is no need to buck orvl rear. so maybe my specialty is persuasion

[khall]

Chisamba I agree wholeheartedly!! If the horse is not comfortable standing quietly and relaxed for mounting don’t get on! Well unless you are a jockey mounting a fit racehorse. I spend a good bit of time on both sides of the horse preparing them to be mounted. Joplin took a bit more time just because she’s a more movey horse in general. Rip preferred to just stay at the block!

[Tanga]

OK, guys, good ideas. Tell us HOW you train it.
Ryeissa--How do you train the stretch? khall--How do you train the renver? What are the details in the process?

Chisamba I am with you 100%. I always get comments about how well behaved my horses are, especially from vets who get hurt by a lot of badly trained horses. It's because I don't want to get hurt, either! It keeps me moving better when I don't get major injuries all of the time, and the horses are happier because they know the rules.

[mari]

I haven't trained to higher levels than Elementary Medium (3rd), so I don't think I have a movement speciality. But I have very good timing and feel, and I can ask for a sharp reaction and pretty much immediately be cool and zen and release a split second afterwards. As a result I tend to get a good contact out of horses, they trust my hands.

[mari]

Btw Tanga, I loved your post. Transitions transitions transitions. Ridden with purpose and a focus on improvement, it is the secret of nearly everything, in my experience.

[Flight]

I keep turning up, meaning I just keep having a go. I'm not good at anything in particular, but I seem to not give up (yet)!

[khall]

Tanga I start everything in hand. All lateral work is trained in hand before under saddle. SI is trained first then to teach renvere I get SI but I also train the changing flexion and bend just on the straight lines so the horse is familiar with the concept before I ask for them to change flexion and bend in SI to establish renvere
Under saddle I usually move from SI to renvere but there are other ways if the horse struggles with the changing flexion and bend. Push the haunches to sideline in HP to end up in renvere or move from counter SI to renvere.
For me renvere is one of the best straightening exercises. The horse really has to engage the sling and get off the shoulders.

[piedmontfields]

I keep turning up, meaning I just keep having a go. I'm not good at anything in particular, but I seem to not give up (yet)!

Flight I think you have even more talents, but this is a big one---and probably the best that I, too, have to offer horses. I'm consistent, I'm willing to work incrementally with them, and they can count on my behavior.

p.s. These traits are helping me a lot with rehab work now.

[exvet]

I thought I had written a lengthy (probably too lengthy) response to the 'how do you train the mediums and extended gaits' in the other thread but it disappeared somewhere into the Internet galaxy I guess. Training these movements takes time as do all things; but, I will say that it's awesome when the horse finally 'gets' it. My point is that for all of my horses who have even scored 8 and 9 on their medium gaits (at one time or another) which includes my Arab who I earned my bronze on, Monty (my welsh cob I earned my silver on), my [former] stallion, and one of my broodmares (not Junior's dam) and those with less talent for elasticity that we managed 6s and 7s after years of 5s and 6s is that the process, my process, is not overnight or even within one season. I remember getting very good scores on Monty at first level, winning the state championship and placing in the regional championship, with really good lengthenings only to 'struggle' at getting more than a 6 on the medium trot and extended trot for a long time and then it seemed like one day schooling at someone else's arena we made like 3 attempts, none 'good' enough, and came around for the fourth and last pass and all of a sudden I had a crowd of the boarders with their jaws on the ground and I was beaming ear-to-ear and I'm pretty sure Monty was too. It was similar to my Arab that came before and the same with all of the others that have come since.

Once my horses are truly balanced and working well at training level, I start teaching what I call the 'lift off'. This includes developing the lengthenings but most important I teach my horses the response I want when I reach down around their barrel at the girth with both of my legs (trying to make them long and basically lifting their rib cage/belly up under my seat). At the same time I'm also lifting up my sternum and trying to fill out that 'billowing sail' in my front line. At that moment I expect the horse to raise through the wither and surge even if it's half or a full step and I praise them profusely when they do it. I've discussed before the feeling of landing the plane when coming down for the simple change in the canter-walk-canter transitions.....well my mediums and extended gaits at the trot and canter start and end with the take off and landing of the plane so-to-speak. I use lateral work (SI, HI and rever) and halt transitions to develop the strength and engagement of the hind end. I will then expect quicker responses like the same to half halts within the gaits. This work is over months and even years. As the concept starts to catch on with the horse I will use the corners of the arena to develop engagement and power coming around to a short diagonal and as I'm coming out make absolutely sure they are straight and do not 'let them go' until they are. If I get 1-3 strides of real lift and reach, it's a party and we go on to something else; but, I might come back to it periodically throughout the ride. I gradually increase my expectations of the number of strides by half-halting distinctly every 3-4 strides and ask for that lift off again......this of course also takes time to build up the stamina and the strength to maintain it. I do use cavalettis and poles to help increase the range of motion of their shoulder and reach and am a huge fan of jumping to develop the same (was a hunter princess as a child). For those less naturally talented I have and do teach the Spanish walk in hand and then in the saddle to help them understand raising of the withers with extension of the shoulders in addition to jumping. I adhere to the concept that every horse only has but so many extended gaits in their; so, I am careful not to over school the movement itself; but, having said that, I do ask for mediums and extended trots on the trail and other times when it's FUN and the horse clearly enjoys it. The challenge I did have (but would rather have this one than the opposite) with Monty and my stallion in particular and will likely have the same with Junior is their anticipation of the movement but what I did and will do is I use a 'hint' of medium especially at the shows whenever I'm coming around the short side to refresh the power of the gait and whatever we're doing or intending to do.

The elements of most importance I think are straightness which I work on daily (and the needs are different for each horse so for Junior I have to always watch to keep both of his shoulders up and square because he likes to collapse his right shoulder/not engage with his left hind) and collection. I will always, always, always remember Paula K. reminding me that true medium and extended gaits are borne out of true and correct collection and engagement (which means both hind legs stepping under and towards the midline equally). So, again, I want the response to my aids for lift off/take off to be there and the response to half-halts to be there......what comes in between is a matter of strength, stamina and tempo.....all things I can achieve through a wide variety of exercises.

As corny as it sounds I think the horse clearly realizes that the mediums and the extended gaits become our reward and are FUN movements. I try to pick up or breed BOLD characters (of course I try to get the conformation of the breed that makes it possible too). I do this with the stretchy trot and transition it to the medium and extended gaits.........so now to Tanga's comment about the tempo. Anticipation and my 'drive' can definitely result in running and not increasing the scope of the gait. Here is where I really, really try to work hard on the collected gait and getting that perfect tempo AND getting them on my seat. Poles and cavalettis help this; but, I have to work hard on keeping that tempo in my head and through my body as I ask for the medium/extended and maintain my position of up in front so that we both don't drop and run. For me this becomes hard at shows when I get tired and just want the test to be over. Depending on the horse I will pick music with the tempo I want to maintain and listen to it on the way to the show so that I keep it in my head along with the timing/tempo and then sing it to myself as I ride the movement which really does help. In the end though I'm a do it or die type of person (no guts no glory) and am the type to really push the envelope so there are definitely times I push it right on past the edge and go over it. This is more ring craft and show craft but I think it's also training. It's a process and not just one for the horse LOL.

I hope my rambling makes sense.

[exvet]

This easily translates into pirouettes, where you can just take it over. And I think I have improved the pirouettes with my newfound understanding of feeling of taking the shoulders out by taking my hands up and out (or it feels like it) instead of trying to keep the inside hand in and keep them off the inside leg, which really doesn't work. Since they are so used to canter on the spot and super strong in it, it is super easy to just control the pirouette by taking it over.

So I have a challenge keeping control of the shoulders without allowing the hind end to get stuck. I think it's my personal challenge at times of walking and chewing gum at the same time. I feel like I need to perfect this at the walk which I haven't yet but we're getting there. One thing I'm trying to do is basically make the movement with my body, in other words I keep walking with my legs/seat as I turn or I keep cantering with my seat as I turn.....it's my damn upper body though that seems to get in the way. Any tips there?

[blob]

I think I have two strengths:

1. Starting young horses under saddle. I do this by being patient and doing things in smalls steps. I have a system, but I'm also willing to look outside the box. I also never have a timeline. I always do join up in the beginning to establish a working relationship. Then I make sure the horse is able to lunge on a line to cavesson/halter based on just voice commands--whoa, walk, trot, canter. My lunging work starts on just a small circle and teaching 'whoa' and 'walk-on' until we have that I don't go further. Once this kind of voice command lunging is super easy, i start introducing tack, first just a surcingle, then a saddle. Then a bridle (but I don't attach anything to the bit). Then i add side reins (but not lunging off the bit). I know SRs are controversial for some. But if a horse can't accept some level of contact/bit pressure on the ground, I don't want to get on. Then once the horse is lunging very comfortably in tack, I start introducing standing on a mounting block, putting pressure on the stirrups, lunging with stirrups down, etc. I eventually get to mounting. And then I have someone lunge with me just as a passenger using voice commands. Then we go from voice commands only to voice commands + aids. Then we remove the line, but keep the ground person. All of these steps I only move if the horse is really really comfortable. Sometimes I can do multiple steps in a day because it's all no big deal. other times it might take days or weeks doing one small step. A lot of this also just takes having a lot of comfort and practice on the ground and being able to read the horse and respond quickly but in a low-key way.

2. Stretch trot. to teach a good stretch, I ask the horse to flex to the inside. When the horse softens, I release a bit of rein. a few strides later, I ask to flex again, when the horse softens/gives, i release again. I do this until the horse is in a full stretch. Usually at some point when learning the horse will lift its head or come out of the contact of the stretch, if that happens, I calmly take back the rein (not making a punishment or a jerky action) and start over. Sometimes you don't have to take all the way up to full contact just to the point the horse came up to. Once the horse gets used to happily and readily stretching down in contact I start working to make sure the stretch doesn't also means falling on the forehand, so I really think of sitting the horse back and pushing the shoulder up so that the neck is falling down out of a lifted shoulder. I also do a lot of sloooowing the tempo for a few strides at a time without changing the frame to get more sit/rock back. Once all of this is in place i always make sure I do a lot of changes of directions in stretch trot to ensure it's a true connection

[Sue B]

I don't think I have any one particular talent or whatever, but I do have good, natural timing. I can't very well say out loud what each leg is doing because I seem incapable of putting what my body "knows" instinctually into words. I did notice that whenever I count the walk out loud, I always start with a hind leg even though it's easier to count off one of the front legs (given that you can actually look at it move, lol.)

The only other thing judges, clinicians and coaches consistently comment on is that my horses truly like being with me and trust me, even when I ride poorly. That's gotta count for something I suppose. Flight, I think that well may be your gift as well...come to think of it, I think that is a gift we all share in this lovely little internet community.

ETA Great posts exvet and blob

[blob]

Thanks for your detailed post, Exvet--very helpful for me. And while the plane analogy doesn't always work great for my mind, the 'billowing sail' description really, really did resonate. So, thank you for that added nugget.

I've been thinking about a lot about the notion of a horse only having so many extended gaits in them. MM's extended trot work gets better when i really push her on it---if i do 4 diagonals in a row the last one will be the good one. But I also worry about over doing it. And doing lots of lateral work or getting a more passagey/suspension trot hasn't quite played the role I would have hoped. But the notion of the billowing sail is interesting to me because when I have gotten the lift from her, she is often lifting up through wither, but not actually powering up, more like popping up. So that gives me a different feel to work for a stride or two at a time. With her I also do think teaching spanish walk in hand (somethign I'll have to learn to teach) and remembering to jump things bigger than tiny cross rails will help open up that shoulder more. She has the range of motion in her, she just doesn't choose to use it much and so i'm sure it is both weaker and stiffer than ideal.

[exvet]

The extra challenge I've found with mustangs is that while they'll give you most anything once they trust you they really do not understand or agree with wasting energy unnecessarily. It's not that they can't do it; but, it may not key into their survival instinct and conservation energy skills. Making stuff fun has definitely helped with my guy; but, he has no dressage future since his main job take all his time LOL.

[blob]

The extra challenge I've found with mustangs is that while they'll give you most anything once they trust you they really do not understand or agree with wasting energy unnecessarily. It's not that they can't do it; but, it may not key into their survival instinct and conservation energy skills. Making stuff fun has definitely helped with my guy; but, he has no dressage future since his main job take all his time LOL.

Yes, MM is energy efficient for sure. She won't ever give me MORE than I ask. But she is also interesting because if she finds the work new, mentally complex, or interesting she's actually quite forward and engaged and while she's not giving me anything for free, it doesn't take much work to get what I want. But it's when the work isn't something NEW or mentally stimulating the level of spark just dies down. But even when she is animated in the field or at liberty and is flagging her tail and snorting even then she does not typically raise and straighten her front legs through her shoulder. She will instead get good stride behind but then push her front legs down instead of out.

[Chisamba]

I take my time. Have you ever heard the expression " if you act like you have all day, it takes 5 minutes, but if you act like you have 5 minutes it takes all day. " whichever horse I am with, whatever I am doing, I act like I have all day. if my horse wants to move, and I want it to stand still, i.move it til it wants to stand still. then we just stand and enjoy stillness for a while. it's not " natural horsemanship, or chasing, I just do in hand exercises like a bit of bending, turning, side passing backward forward turn toward turn away, lowering the head. quiet effective movement.

[Tanga]

I take my time. Have you ever heard the expression " if you act like you have all day, it takes 5 minutes, but if you act like you have 5 minutes it takes all day. " whichever horse I am with, whatever I am doing, I act like I have all day. if my horse wants to move, and I want it to stand still, i.move it til it wants to stand still. then we just stand and enjoy stillness for a while. it's not " natural horsemanship, or chasing, I just do in hand exercises like a bit of bending, turning, side passing backward forward turn toward turn away, lowering the head. quiet effective movement.

We do things very similarly. Either I'm always thinking, yep, I do that, or yeah, I'm always trying to remind myself to do that when you post.

[khall]

I think what chisamba talks about here is a good reminder for all.