Teaching a horse to breathe through work?

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Tanga
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Teaching a horse to breathe through work?

Postby Tanga » Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:46 am

I have been more and more connecting my workouts and how I do them and get strong with my horses, thus when it's not working with them, I try to see what work through exercise and stretch I need to do to get them to where they can do it, just as with me. It takes a long time with me and them.

As I was breathing in my Zoom workout today, I was thinking how I make lot of noise with the breathing in and out and how all of my pictures from shows I look like blowfish because I finally learned how to breathe through work in pilates. I remember it used to be an issue I held my breath when I rode.

So this led me to Quinn. She is already a tight horse that wants to stiffen. All three horses normally make a lot of noise. Walking down hills can be a trio of oof, oof, oops. Mom is like listening to a train when she is doing anything--she is blower and never holds her breathe. I just figured out one of the things going on with Quinn is she holds her breath when she's working sometimes and makes that sound that you make when you're holding it and try to force something instead of breathing through it. Boy, this is hard to explain. Do you know what I mean?

So I'm thinking if I can teach her to breathe through work and get the pilates flow instead of holding it and being tight and then making "oof" sounds when she lets it out. But. I am having a hard time trying to figure out any way to do this. Any ideas? How do you teach a horse not to old their breathe when exerting?

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Chisamba
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Re: Teaching a horse to breathe through work?

Postby Chisamba » Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:47 am

I have for a long time taught two things that go hand in hand both of which I learned to focus on through my work.

So we, humans and animals both, are affected in how we learn by stress.

" While stress around the time of learning is thought to enhance memory formation, thus leading to robust memories, stress markedly impairs memory retrieval, bearing, for instance, the risk of underachieving at exams" so stress makes us remember scary things robustly bur makes it hard to retrieve learned things.

so what reduces cortisol? yes, what you already discovered. breathing, most particularly rhythmic breathing and square breathing.

but danged horses do not listen when I say breathe . ( lol)

for a while on this bb there was strong advocates for clicker training. so I tried it. I would stand in front of Kimba an regulate her breathing gently with my hands over her nostrils and say breathe, and click when she gave a large inhalation.

did not work. I couldn't get it to translate to riding.

so then I tried consistent aerobic work til she naturally was taking huge breaths. read t minutes of forward canter. canter regulates breathing more than trit. did not work because once again I couldn't get it to translate to work not including forward canter.

So then I began to tune in to her better. if at point in work she began to stress, and demonstrate it by holding her breath, I would do a few strides of stretch work til she took a good breath, then return to the work. ( I do not change gait, simply ask her to reach out longitudinally) so I find inserting moments of stretch to breath right in the middle of complex problems and then return to the problem has taught her to breath through work. now I can simply slightly put my hand forward ( in lateral. in changes in half pass,and she breathes.

on the greener horses I find serpentine seem to encourage relaxed breathing.

now Kimba breathes quite noisily and people comment on it and I say " I know, isn't it great "

I have posted a couple of " how I incorporate stretch " videos but til now very few people asked about it and some were critical about " loss of uphill" but it's a process, get the relaxation, the breathing and then keep it through the work.

if you find a better technique I would really enjoy to hear about it.

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Re: Teaching a horse to breathe through work?

Postby khall » Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:26 pm

Horses mirror their riders. Make sure you are breathing as you ride her even in the most difficult exercises. I agree with chisamba on stretching as well. That check of connection and relaxation is important in our work. It’s not that we live in the stretch but that the horses can and will follow the rein down when offered. If you or chisamba watched my trot video with Joplin there is stretch offered in our work.

Tanga I like how you have slowed both of your horses down in their tests that too should help with relaxation and breathing. Cedar showed me a video she and JP are working on piaffe. They have 16 horses on the farm that piaffe. When they show the piaffe they also show asking the horse to stretch and reach at a stand still after the piaffe. She incorporates stretching in all of her work even canter. Going back to that stretch after more collected work.

Add the brilliance after relaxation but always be able to go back to that relaxation

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Re: Teaching a horse to breathe through work?

Postby piedmontfields » Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:52 pm

This is a very interesting question!

I will share that I observed a Suzanne von Dietz clinic where she taught riders to try out different sounds to see what effect the sound had on themselves or their horse. Things like hissing, sh sh sh sounds, huff huff huff sounds. It varied quite a bit by horse and rider which sounds were useful for relaxation and/or energizing the body.

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Re: Teaching a horse to breathe through work?

Postby blob » Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:28 pm

If I were to make a word cloud of all the things my instructor says to me (particularly at shows), BREATHE would definitely be the biggest one.

As for the horses, I think one thing that is interesting is that in with my two different things get the big breath out response. For MM, it's usually getting up in two-point and letting her move free in a big, forward canter. With RP, serpentines or other repetitive/rhythmical bending trot work seems to help. With him it seems to be finding a rhythm and allowing him to relax into it. With MM it seems to be more about pushing her and give her space to release what she's holding in.

Stretching is great for relaxation, for sure. But I don't know that it is always what gets the breathing going, at least in my experience, which is limited.

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Re: Teaching a horse to breathe through work?

Postby StraightForward » Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:03 pm

Interesting thread! I've noticed that Tesla holds her breath and this contributes to her feeling so stuck at the beginning of the rides. Once she moves enough that she's forced to take a big breath, things get better. But I'm going to try some of these tips (I'm sure I am guilty of holding be breath when things aren't going well, or I'm anticipating problems).
Keep calm and canter on.

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Re: Teaching a horse to breathe through work?

Postby khall » Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:31 pm

SF have you tried going sideways in LY or SI before asking for the up transition with Tesla? That is what helped Gaila to keep her from sticking. Cedar clinic not one time did she even think of stopping. In fact now I have the opposite issue of powering forward. Using SI steeper angle to help with the power

Blob that is so true what your instructor says! One of Mark’s sayings to almost everyone was just breathe. I know when I concentrate on breathing in the work my horses connect better with me.

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Re: Teaching a horse to breathe through work?

Postby StraightForward » Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:37 pm

khall wrote:SF have you tried going sideways in LY or SI before asking for the up transition with Tesla? That is what helped Gaila to keep her from sticking. Cedar clinic not one time did she even think of stopping. In fact now I have the opposite issue of powering forward. Using SI steeper angle to help with the power


Here and there. Trot SI definitely powers her up, but at the walk sometimes we end up with too much angle and then she stops or spins her haunches out, so I use it pretty sparingly. However I might give it a shot again as she's started out in a freer walk the last couple rides. Always the chicken/egg situation with her.
Keep calm and canter on.

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Re: Teaching a horse to breathe through work?

Postby heddylamar » Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:05 pm

What an interesting observation, Tanga! I wonder how often Anzia — my spooky, sometimes super-tense, 800% anxious mare — is holding her breath. I'm going to pay close attention. I know Maia doesn't hold her breath. That girl sounds like a freight train half the time with all of her huffing and puffing, and she "blows" at least twice every ride.

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Re: Teaching a horse to breathe through work?

Postby Tanga » Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:33 am

Very interesting. And, inadvertently, I think I have been doing what Chisamba and shall are saying even more. Besides my winter goal to sit STILL and not tighten my back and butt, I have been just working on strength in both of them, being forward and up and carrying. This has including a lot of ask, asking, asking, and then a lot of stretch, stretch, stretch in between, in trot and canter. I will have to pay more attention to Quinn's breathing and incorporate the stretch more thoughtfully and see what happens!

Part of this is doing a lot of p/p with both in hand and under saddle, which I always am trying to get more through the back and stretched. Quinn in particular likes to push her neck up into it, but is very willing to drop her heard if I ask. She doesn't seem to hold her breathe in hand or in the trot work under saddle. Now that I think about it, it's all in canter. Hmmm. I need more observations!

Oh, and I do do trails pretty much every day before work (besides the hike from the pasture) and we always do trot and canter and gallop work, so they warm up breathing quite well.

Something else just in case anyone has any ideas. I have been riding in a degogue and snaffle because it doesn't interfere unless the head gets too high. When we go for gallops (races--I am almost always ponying one or two others, so we have very intense races, or so they think) Quinn can kick into scary speed and put her head up and feel out of control. It's all on hills and she always stops, but I am using the degogue to gain some control and get her to use that forward to come over the back and give in the jaw and not up in her under neck with her nose stuck out. She has kind always been like that. The holding breath seems to be when she's the exact opposite of that--super collected canter and bringing her neck and head up and in more. Quilla can way too easily crank her nose right into her neck, but Quinn never likes to do that. She always wants the nose more open and forward (which shouldn't be a bad thing as long as she is correct, but the one judge recently just beaned her on every movement for it on one of her better tests citing "frame issues." I think it was a judge issue.) She can get there, but if she is really collected, that jaw feels stiff, and that's where she seems to hold her breathe.

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Re: Teaching a horse to breathe through work?

Postby Flight » Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:26 am

I do the complete halting and waiting for a release - big breath, chew, shake etc for Ding. You have to be really patient and wait for it at first, and then it comes sooner and then similar to Chisamba, you can offer a stretch and release without halting. Take a breath and shake off your own tension at the same time!

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Re: Teaching a horse to breathe through work?

Postby Ryeissa » Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:52 pm

This is such an interesting idea. I tend to vary the length of the neck more than most riders as my horse likes to get too short/closed. I think this really helps him breathe better. I also (like Flight) started doing a lot more "stand and wait" on a long rein. My horse is pretty hot so he really gets motoring and forgets to breathe.
I also don't use a crank or flash- if I use a noseband its just a simple one. My horse doesn't like a lot of bulk on his face. I think it helps him relax and breathe too.

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Re: Teaching a horse to breathe through work?

Postby Tanga » Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:50 pm

Oh, good point. To add, I don't use a flash and my nosebands are so loose I can take the bridle off without undoing them. I learned the hard way with their mom trying to hold a mouth closed only makes it worse.

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Re: Teaching a horse to breathe through work?

Postby StraightForward » Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:56 pm

I just happened to find this post about the diaphragm in my saved FB posts, and it seemed relevant to this thread (hopefully the link works): https://www.facebook.com/groups/8467968 ... 442716396/
Keep calm and canter on.

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Re: Teaching a horse to breathe through work?

Postby StraightForward » Sun Dec 12, 2021 4:10 pm

I've been making exaggerated out breath noises like a horse when I'm riding Tesla and it seems to trigger her to do the same. Our rides always get better after she blows out a few times. The other boarders probably think I'm nuts, but what else is new.
Keep calm and canter on.

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Re: Teaching a horse to breathe through work?

Postby Lipsmackerpony88 » Sun Dec 12, 2021 4:29 pm

When I was a teen I had a western trainer that would always have me take a big deep breath when I mounted and I wasn't supposed to walk on until the horse did as well.

Was the benefit for the horse or me? Not sure ha!

Tanga
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Re: Teaching a horse to breathe through work?

Postby Tanga » Sun Dec 12, 2021 10:48 pm

straightforward, actually, that is right on. they will mimic you. You can do the same thing to people. They will start following your breathing. Of course, you need to remember to breathe. I am on a break right now taking care of some medical issues, but I will play with that more when I get back on.

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Re: Teaching a horse to breathe through work?

Postby Kathy Johnson » Sat Jan 01, 2022 10:10 pm

Synching the breath with the horse. All horses breathe in rhythm with their gaits. We hear it mostly in canter, as the horse lands, but its there in all gaits. So you can start dismounted, at rest, leaning behind your horse's shoulders, where I suppose your hearts meet. Feel the horse's breath in your chest. Learn to breath in his rhythm. They are herd animals and are well aware of each other's breathing patterns. It's how the start the alarm, like us, a quickened breath. The horse will mirror you as you mirror him, a sign of trust and respect.

Then when you are riding, follow the beat of the walk. You really have to know how to count the horse's steps to do this. Then you can practice speeding up your breath before upward transitions. Slow the breath before and exhale during downward transitions. If you feel the horse hold his breath, they won't really hold it very long, because they would turn blue and fall over--same when you are tightening that girth. What you're probably feeling is the horse breathing shallowly. Be aware if he is tense or relaxed. If he's relaxed and not working too hard, he might not need deep breaths. If he's tense, make your breath a little louder in the exhale in the rhythm of the gait you want (I think you'll probably need to know how to do circular breathing to do this.) Finding the perfect rhythm within a relaxed gait is going probably going to get the horse breathing in a more relaxed fashion. If it's not working, heave a deep sigh. Relax, go on a long rein, and give him a chance to mirror your sigh.


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