The video thread

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demi
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The video thread

Postby demi » Mon Dec 27, 2021 1:03 am

Here are two clips from my last two rides that show what I believe is one of the benefits of carrying my hands higher on Rocky. Her downward transitions have always been difficult but I’ve managed to get them “sufficient” enough for training level. The first clip shows a bad trot-walk trans with my hands held at the height I’ve used ever since I started taking lessons about 3 yrs ago. I get these bad transitions maybe 1 out of 10 times.

The second clip shows what I think is a nice trot-walk with my hands held higher. I may be wrong, but I think that the higher hands give her long hind legs a place to go where as the lower hands hold her forehand down and her hind legs run into her forehand and she throws her head up make room…even her trot-canter-trot transitions which are easier for her, felt much smoother with the higher hands.

https://youtu.be/5LbN9Gj_ZaE

https://youtu.be/zwdPDkYaSMk

As a counterpart to the hands higher arena work, I’m now to allowing her to go on a long rein for hill work instead of asking for a “frame”. I “feel” the reins, and let her feel my hands, but I let her put her head where she wants going up the hill. She naturally lowers her head and neck going uphill.

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Re: The video thread

Postby Flight » Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:11 am

Definitely a smoother trans in the second vid. When you pause the first vid to try and see what's going on, it's like she needs to lift her head to balance what's going on behind.

I tell you what though, the more I know, the more I realise how much I don't know!! I do recommend if you go down the Legerete path, then get regular instruction with it. I know you use soloshot, but if you have a pivo and not bad internet/phone coverage, get onto pivo meet and find a good instructor that uses that system.

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Re: The video thread

Postby demi » Mon Dec 27, 2021 1:15 pm

Flight wrote:Definitely a smoother trans in the second vid. When you pause the first vid to try and see what's going on, it's like she needs to lift her head to balance what's going on behind.

I tell you what though, the more I know, the more I realise how much I don't know!! I do recommend if you go down the Legerete path, then get regular instruction with it. I know you use soloshot, but if you have a pivo and not bad internet/phone coverage, get onto pivo meet and find a good instructor that uses that system.


Yes, I realize how much I don’t know!! Not just about the microcosm of dressage, but about life in general.

Anyway, I agree that it looks like she lifts her head in the transition to try to balance what’s going on behind. Her “behind” conformation is not the norm, so I think I need to make some compromises. Ideally, there would be no brace in the neck, but in my situation, maybe a little brace till she tries something else will be like “training wheels” for us…I’m just trying to work with what I have and keep both myself and my horse happy.

Going down the Legerete path didnt even cross my mind. I’m 68 and Rocky is 14. Our path is too short to follow someone else’s program. Im just trying to enjoy that I can still get on a horse and play dressage!
Last edited by demi on Mon Dec 27, 2021 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The video thread

Postby demi » Mon Dec 27, 2021 1:19 pm

Just for the record, I’m not suggesting that what Im doing is correct, or that anyone else should do what Im doing! Im just sharing what Im doing :)

Im interested to “see” what others here are doing and am just looking to virtually share in their experiences. Words can be helpful, but videos (and pics, too) can show things that words can’t express.

I appreciate others comments about my posts because it adds to discussion and also helps me keep a broader perspective.

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Re: The video thread

Postby Sue B » Mon Dec 27, 2021 6:05 pm

Take it for what you will, but I think the "problem" is that you need to carry your hands more forward, fully in front of her withers, whether you hold them higher or not. During your down transitions, imagine your reins are broom sticks and "shove" your hands forward toward her mouth. Now, you don't really move your hands any significant amount but your elbows will open and soften. This will give her the room she needs to do a downward transition.

I apologize in advance if this makes no sense. I'm trying to describe how I ride Rudy. And, yes, I do carry my hands higher when I ride Rudy, but 1) I strive to keep them at a height my pinkies can still touch the neck, and 2) they are most definitely in front of his withers "at all times". This requires a shorter rein than I used to ride with, but he really likes the way it feels and no longer tries to duck behind the rein. It also doesn't mean that I can't ride him with a longer rein, and sometimes I do so on purpose, putting him in a nice, solid first level frame until his back is fully swinging and his withers have raised up between my hands.

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Re: The video thread

Postby Tanga » Mon Dec 27, 2021 7:08 pm

What I see. Yes, the second transition is smoother. It's not because of the higher hands, but because of the balance and being in contact. I have been helping some people with exactly this lately, and the answer is to shorten the reins and bring the elbows back so that they are lower towards the whithers, but overall the neck is higher because the hind end has come under.

Think of it as a plane landing. If your reins are long, the horse falls on the forehand and crashes. You thwarted that some by bringing your hands up. Try more energy from behind into a shorter rein so she comes up and gives in the transition (think more flexible in the poll) and lands tail down istead of tail up.

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Re: The video thread

Postby Flight » Mon Dec 27, 2021 8:51 pm

demi wrote:Yes, I realize how much I don’t know!! Not just about the microcosm of dressage, but about life in general.


Sorry, this wasn't aimed at you, I meant for me and I'm tending to be reluctant to offer opinion or advice because in time I realise I'm probably wrong!
Why I have joined in this time, is because I have literally just come from going down that path!

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Re: The video thread

Postby Tanga » Tue Dec 28, 2021 1:27 am

I made a video! I ended up ponying Quilla and fixing the fences she keeps breaking through. So I decided to work on her piaffe/passage from Quinn's back. I'm just trying to get her so solid and easy in it in every form she'll actually do it at a show! This is not even as good as she can because I am only cuing her by voice. I was videoing with one hand and holding the rein in the other. (And are you impressed by my cool new hat that keeps the rain off my glasses and has nice ear muffs on it without pressing into my ears and hurting them? It is frigid here, for us. In the 40's during the day! We don't have the clothing!)

https://youtu.be/GpHraDzQIt0

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Re: The video thread

Postby demi » Tue Dec 28, 2021 2:00 am

I loved the video, Tanga!! I like how you talk to her! And how she listens. Your video gives me a nice “inside story” of how you train. Reading about what people do is good, certainly, but video adds flavor. Thanks for sharing! (And very clever taking the vid from the mirror!)

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Re: The video thread

Postby demi » Tue Dec 28, 2021 2:17 am

SueB, thanks for your explanation. It’s making me think! I just read through it a second time and it does make sense, even though Im not sure if I can do it exactly. It makes sense about softer, more open elbows giving her the room she needs for the downward transition, but as soon as I actively put my hands forward in front of the whither, my shoulders stiffen to hold them there. If I let my upper arm hang naturally from my shoulder, I am relaxed, but then my hands aren’t in front of the withers. I need to figure out how I am “pinning” her when my hands are in the lower position and maybe the answer is in my elbows. As I think about this, and watch my vids at the same time it might clear up for me.

Thanks for your help.

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Re: The video thread

Postby Moutaineer » Tue Dec 28, 2021 2:26 am

Demi, just getting round to the videos! Yes--from what I can see, I agree with Sue B. In the first video, your reins are so long that they end up in your lap during the down transition, you have a long run up before an abrupt contact. Carrying them more forward, with a bent elbow, and a shorter rein, will give you a more refined and subtle contact that will allow you to "breathe" into the transition.

(Just read you answer to SueB--maybe push your belly wall forward, so you don't have to pull your elbows so far back to be by your sides?)
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Re: The video thread

Postby Moutaineer » Tue Dec 28, 2021 2:29 am

And Tanga, I love the video :) (All that stuff is falling as snow here.)

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Re: The video thread

Postby demi » Tue Dec 28, 2021 2:33 am

Flight, I appreciate your advice and opinions! I get a lot out of your posts and feel lucky that we have you on this board. You have posed lots of good videos and I know that you dont just talk the talk. You walk the walk!

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Re: The video thread

Postby StraightForward » Tue Dec 28, 2021 3:15 am

It's hard to see what is going on with your hands since you are going away from the camera in the transition in the higher hands video, but when I paused it after you turn the corner, it looks like you could slide your hands 3-4" down the reins so they would be slightly lower, with a little more obtuse angle to your elbow, but your upper arm would still be in the same position, so I don't think that would create more tension in the shoulders. In the lower hands video, there is a more straight line from the elbow to the bit, but it looks like your hands might be in a little bit of a puppy paw position (hard to tell for sure), and I get the sense that Rocky is diving down towards the contact to the extent that she can. I think somewhere in the middle, shorter reins and more carrying, but not high, hands, will encourage her to carry as well. With the shorter reins you can test for stretching. Lifting from the underneck with drop the sternum and tighten the back, which will make it impossible for the hind leg to swing under as well. Jillian Kreinbring just did a nice little FaceBook Live on hill work that goes into some of this and might be available to rewatch on her page.

I'm working through some similar things with Annabelle, find the sweet spot where she is softer in the bridle and over the back, but not falling on the forehand, so I consistently have the feeling of more horse in front of the saddle. It is not easy for either one of us! Someone commented on a recent video that although my torso was upright, my weight tended towards the front of my body, so I've been more conscious of thinking of flowing the weight down the spine while making a little room with the seatbones to allow the hind legs to come under. We're going to take the next several days off from riding with a cold snap coming in, but I'll try to share some video when we get back at it.
Keep calm and canter on.

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Re: The video thread

Postby Flight » Wed Dec 29, 2021 9:12 pm

My instructor does online lessons too, where you submit a vid and she will analyse it but she takes a lot of screenshots and teaches you to look at what muscles the horse is using in a moment, or what your body position is doing, and/or what your horses body is doing in that moment. I've found this really helpful when I'm not sure with what I'm doing. So, I'll often pause video and really try and look to see what muscles are bulging or not. How much straightness is in the spine/neck or footfalls. What's going on in my position.
With my 'rehab' riding, one of the best things has been learning about not pulling back or tightening in my hands or arms. Clearly I didn't learn this very well all my years of riding until now and it's such a basic thing! I believed I wasn't pulling back, but must have been.

But yes also trail ride to relax and not get paralysed by too much analysis!!!

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Re: The video thread

Postby demi » Thu Dec 30, 2021 4:11 am

SF,I’m looking forward to your videos especially since Annabelle and Rocky have a lot of similarities.

Flight, your instructor’s program sounds really interesting. How long have you been riding with her?

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Re: The video thread

Postby Flight » Thu Dec 30, 2021 8:30 pm

Tanga - pretty good getting piaffe just like that (voice,holding vid, riding another horse at same time etc!) What a cutie :)

Demi - I've been riding with her a few years now. Maybe 3 or 4? Not regularly enough unfortunately, but hoping more now that I have Pivo meet to use.

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Re: The video thread

Postby Anne » Tue Jan 04, 2022 8:08 pm

Demi - I went to re-watch your videos and they say 'private', did you no longer want to have them viewed? I was going to show a trot-walk transition to compare and contrast with yours, but it's not so useful without your videos!

Tanga, you should get the prize for innovative filming!! Working two horses at the same time, while filming your work, damned impressive! And looks like a lovely piaffe too :-)

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Re: The video thread

Postby demi » Tue Jan 04, 2022 10:47 pm

Oh oh! Anne. I was trying to make some of my older videos offline but I must have done something wrong. I will try to fix it as soon as I finish this post. Some of this stuff is really hit or miss with me.

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Re: The video thread

Postby Anne » Wed Jan 05, 2022 3:59 am

Fixed! (Demi's video link).

Here's a trot-walk transition, from a few months back, to compare and contrast with Demi's. I quite like the trot coming in, but he hollows/braces in the transition. I feel the rein length in trot is OK, but I think I have a general tendency to ride with slightly long reins, so maybe not? He's tricky to keep a good connection with, and generally wants to drop the contact especially if I don't manage to keep enough forward/energy. Anyway, comments/discussion welcome!

https://vimeo.com/662148738

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Re: The video thread

Postby Chisamba » Wed Jan 05, 2022 12:01 pm

I am genuinely trying to be helpful here. In both transitions, demi and ann the main error I see is the horse is not off the leg. It takes as much leg to do the downward transition as the upward transition, maybe more. If you do not use leg and rely on your seat, than it takes a much of a driving seat to do the downward as the upward. Why? The horse must truly step under themselves to carry their balance behind so that the do not need to lift or brace their neck to stop.
Keep the horses jaw elastic and keep the hind end active into any downward transition.

And stop cutting yourself slack because you're horse is downhill, it's easier to get good transitions in a downhill horse than an uphill one. Take this from someone who rides both.

I know this video is probably too long and boring but if you ff toward the end where I turn up center line, you will see me inelegantly driving her with my leg to get the forward needed for the downward transition. https://youtu.be/iFnKj1dKtew

In comparison, a downward transition with insufficient response to the leg ( or insufficient leg lol) https://youtube.com/shorts/cJcbirB-pbs?feature=share
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Re: The video thread

Postby demi » Wed Jan 05, 2022 12:40 pm

After watching my bad transition in slow motion over and over, I think what you (Chisamba) said in another thread is my main problem. I had to copy and paste to get your exact words (because I couldn’t get the quote function to work across threads:

QUOTE from Chisamba:

I think the most common problem in transitions, particularly downward, is not the height of the hands but the quality of the connection. Humans have this tendency to get rigid in their hands and elbows in the transition so the horse meets a rigid connection and lifts its neck, dropping the shoulder and becomes hollow. I see it I've and over.

Riders who ride lovely transitions maintain elasticity through the transition. I would suggest that you play with pushing your hands firward in the transition and not relying on the reins, no matter which height of hand you are working with.


When I watch the transitions on Saiph and Conner, I can see the difference in the two horses’ responses, but my eye isnt good enough to discern why Conner braces and Saiph doesn’t. When i watched my own video slo-mo and repeatedly, I could remember how it felt, and then piece together what I’m seeing with what I felt. And that’s why I think Chisamba’s advice (that I quoted) is what’s going on in my case.

Thanks both of you for sharing videos!

I also noticed that my still photo that I copied from Facebook disappeared. I dont know why that happened because I wasn’t even playing around with Facebook. At least I think I have YouTube figured out enough to post vids here :roll:

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Re: The video thread

Postby demi » Wed Jan 05, 2022 12:54 pm

In thinking about it, I can’t understand how a good downward transition could be easier on a downhill built horse. If I do a downward transition on Rocky with a really long rein, where she can’t even feel my hands or elbows, the transition is on the forehand. And it’s abrupt, and jarring. Im theorizing (because I dont actually know) that that’s because it’s a downhill transition.

Isnt a dressage transition supposed to be forward, and uphill?

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Re: The video thread

Postby blob » Wed Jan 05, 2022 1:09 pm

Anne, I agree you have a nice trot going in! One of the things I noticed, is that in the transition your body and seat come down and forward. So your body is saying--stop trotting. Instead of saying--start walking. The latter will encourage the transition to start from the hind legs and for them to step under, making it more uphill. If you kept your seat uphill and forward and encourage him to swing into the walk, I think you would get a smoother transition.

I think this is similar to what chisamba is saying, just in different words.

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Re: The video thread

Postby Chisamba » Wed Jan 05, 2022 1:46 pm

A horse that is built physically uphill still carries its weight in the same proportions as a downhill horse. Think of a teeter totter, or see saw. Let's say your were sitting on one moving forward, To get the down side to.lift you just shift your weight back. If it's already uphill, how do you get it uphill? There is no where to go. So the horse lifts its head. Of course the balanced horse or see saw is easiest

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Re: The video thread

Postby Chisamba » Wed Jan 05, 2022 3:56 pm

A better description of a dressage transition is, IMHO, balanced and connected.

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Re: The video thread

Postby demi » Wed Jan 05, 2022 4:48 pm

blob wrote:…Anne, I agree you have a nice trot going in! One of the things I noticed, is that in the transition your body and seat come down and forward. So your body is saying--stop trotting. Instead of saying--start walking. The latter will encourage the transition to start from the hind legs and for them to step under, making it more uphill. If you kept your seat uphill and forward and encourage him to swing into the walk, I think you would get a smoother transition. ..


I like this thought a lot. I am pretty sure I’m thinking “stop trotting”! And when I think STOP! I tighten my hands, elbows, and shoulders. I’ll try thinking “Start walking” to change my focus. I can even say it out loud.

And I too, like Anne’s trot going into the transition. I think we have different “problems” because I don’t see any tension in your hands or elbows. I put the word “problem” in quotation marks because I don’t think of this as a big deal, just a pesky issue we are working through!
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Re: The video thread

Postby demi » Wed Jan 05, 2022 4:51 pm

Chisamba wrote:A better description of a dressage transition is, IMHO, balanced and connected.


I like this description. When I do T-W I will keep this in mind and think to myself, “are we balanced? Is the connection good? Ok, now we can start walking.”!

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Re: The video thread

Postby Lipsmackerpony88 » Wed Jan 05, 2022 5:04 pm

https://youtu.be/9oqcZfg2TU8 I will add this video in for a couple trot walk transitions as well.

I definitely think my reins are a bit long and of course my ever going need to raise my hand or more importantly bend my elbows (trainer says it's getting better, I need new video.) And I think I'm just stiff in my body in general. My leg wants to draw up..

But if anybody has any thoughts on my downward transitions that you can see we can pick that apart too.

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Re: The video thread

Postby Lipsmackerpony88 » Wed Jan 05, 2022 5:09 pm

https://youtu.be/3U-YAC_DSrs And then there is another one at the very end of this video. I think I didn't use enough leg in this transition. And perhaps tipped forward a bit.

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Re: The video thread

Postby Lipsmackerpony88 » Wed Jan 05, 2022 5:19 pm

Chisamba, not boring at all!

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Re: The video thread

Postby Tanga » Wed Jan 05, 2022 7:05 pm

Lipsmacker, I think his down transitions are lovely. Very smooth and balanced. My only comment is you are are straight trying to hold his head down. Put some bend in your elbow so YOU are more comfortable and balanced and then let him find his balance there, adding some leg as he needs help.

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Re: The video thread

Postby Moutaineer » Wed Jan 05, 2022 7:41 pm

Interesting discussion--this is what I worked on yesterday, too :) (Good, safe lesson for a cold windy day with roofalanches!)

I like Blob's thought of "start walking" vs "stop trotting." It could save one from bracing with one's arms in the transition, if one were ever inclined to do such a thing :)

And yes, balance was a big deal from my trainer yesterday. Get him balanced and straight and connected and ride through the transition, don't just stop riding and expect it to happen. Also push slightly sideways in the belly wall through the transition to deflate any tendency to brace from him. (I suspect this last is case-specific and not general advice.)

Also, think carefully about your own posture. Don't you fall on to your forehand and expect him not to. Sit up, positive tension, breathe through your belly and don't brace your shoulders.

On a related thought, my husband is a singer, and so breathing exercises and correct breathing are a thing for him. We were discussing the "breathing through the belly" issue in the last clinic I participated in, and he was there in the corner, quietly videoing me. He piped up with an interesting visual that they use when teaching singers to breathe correctly:

"Imagine that you have 12 noses attached around your belt and breathe through them."

Try it. It's interesting what it does to your posture and lower body connection, as well as your air intake.

I've been doing a lot of focusing on my breathing recently and it's been very worthwhile.

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Re: The video thread

Postby Moutaineer » Wed Jan 05, 2022 7:43 pm

Chisamba, that's a lovely video of Saiph.

I find the trot walk transition more challenging that the trot halt. Same with canter trot vs canter walk.

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Re: The video thread

Postby Lipsmackerpony88 » Wed Jan 05, 2022 7:54 pm

Tanga wrote:Lipsmacker, I think his down transitions are lovely. Very smooth and balanced. My only comment is you are are straight trying to hold his head down. Put some bend in your elbow so YOU are more comfortable and balanced and then let him find his balance there, adding some leg as he needs help.


Tanga thank you! Do you mean my elbows are straight trying to hold his head down? I don't think it's actually that as far as what I think I'm doing. If anything I think I think I'm being soft / more steady with the rein. Ugh! I've been working a lot on my elbows so I will have to get new video. It's just what I think my body is doing and what it does do can be so different. Part of it is my shoulder is unstable so it is a lot for me to have good posture without being tense and weird.

I definitely think is my posture gets better, The easier his own balances and the more easy everything feels! One of my goals is to go to physical therapy this year. I'm just fighting my body too much and now with my back issues I just have to address it.

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Re: The video thread

Postby Lipsmackerpony88 » Wed Jan 05, 2022 8:08 pm

Your advice holds true either way Tanga, I just get frustrated with my own body ha ha.

One thing that I noticed for a bit was I think I was sitting too much and I think Lynx took it as a driving seat? Or maybe I used too much leg. But he would get almost jiggy or just do a slow jog in between. So I think parts of my body were telling him to go and slow down at the same time he was trying to figure out what I wanted. So I changed how I sit into the walk.

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Re: The video thread

Postby Tanga » Wed Jan 05, 2022 8:34 pm

Lipsmacker, yes, I mean your elbows are straight holding the reins down. You have no bend in your elbow. One of the things I have "just" figured out in the last year is I and most people's reins are always too long, forcing you to tilt forward and work harder. It's much easier to sit up straight and bend your elbows with shorter reins, so I have NO idea why it's so hard to get there!

I think your rein is very soft and steady now, but you're making it hard on yourself. if you can bend your elbows and shorten the rein a bit, you can sit up more and work less. Just do the same thing with shorter reins/elbows bent. It will give you more stability with that shoulder, too, because you can keep your arm at your side for support.

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Re: The video thread

Postby Lipsmackerpony88 » Wed Jan 05, 2022 8:36 pm

https://youtu.be/RrJEOjDdUqE
Here is a really bad trot to walk transition. Again it's at the end of the video. My position was really cruddy (chair seat, the dreaded elbows.) But from what I can see I think I'm sitting but not engaged in my core and sitting up. And too much backward rein action. Like what was talked about up thread, I'm thinking about stopping more than what the walk will be like after.

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Re: The video thread

Postby Lipsmackerpony88 » Wed Jan 05, 2022 8:41 pm

Tanga wrote:Lipsmacker, yes, I mean your elbows are straight holding the reins down. You have no bend in your elbow. One of the things I have "just" figured out in the last year is I and most people's reins are always too long, forcing you to tilt forward and work harder. It's much easier to sit up straight and bend your elbows with shorter reins, so I have NO idea why it's so hard to get there!

I think your rein is very soft and steady now, but you're making it hard on yourself. if you can bend your elbows and shorten the rein a bit, you can sit up more and work less. Just do the same thing with shorter reins/elbows bent. It will give you more stability with that shoulder, too, because you can keep your arm at your side for support.



Definitely!! Yes I think most of us tend to ride with too long of a rein at some point. I have noticed too that it often depends on the horse that I'm riding. The greener they are, the worse the elbows get. Probably from thinking I need a really long rein.

If I'm on a more schooled or older horse I tend to carry my hand a lot better, probably because I'm more likely to use a shorter rein.

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Re: The video thread

Postby demi » Wed Jan 05, 2022 9:37 pm

Thanks for sharing LSP! I think you’ve gotten some good advice from the others. I too, think those first two videos looked pretty darn good.

Mountaineer, I find trot-walk more difficult than trot-halt, too. Also, I found your husband’s comment interesting. There was a comment posted on the breathing thread that mentioned “circular breathing” which I had to google. There’s apparently a whole lot more to breathing than I ever imagined. Kenny G said that learning circular breathing happens in stages and that the first stage would take 10 years to master. I’ll be lucky to just still be breathing in 10 years! But the idea of 10 noses around my belt seemed more like something I could get a handle on.

Tanga, I hear what you’re saying about the shorter rein thing and it’s something I’ve thought a lot about in the last few years. I think one of the reasons it’s so hard for many of us (me :oops: ) is that it isn’t just as simple as a trainer yelling “SHORTEN YOUR REINS!”. Still, I feel as though I am getting there, but I think it has something to do with my horse developing the posture that allows me to shorten the reins and at the same time not straighten my elbows, or else pull back with my hands. It’s like putting teeth into proper allingnment with braces. It has to happen gradually over time. Sure enough, some riders and trainers are quite good at it and get it done quickly. I cant just shorten my rein that easily and have to go the long way around.

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Re: The video thread

Postby blob » Wed Jan 05, 2022 11:06 pm

demi wrote: my horse developing the posture that allows me to shorten the reins and at the same time not straighten my elbows, or else pull back with my hands. It’s like putting teeth into proper allingnment with braces. It has to happen gradually over time. Sure enough, some riders and trainers are quite good at it and get it done quickly. I cant just shorten my rein that easily and have to go the long way around.


I don't know that I fully agree with this. Of course, a horse's frame will get higher and more collected over time and therefore you will need a shorter rein to have a connection to the bit. That does take time. But usually when the tip is to 'shorten your reins' it's not to shorten the horse's neck and crank them up to a head set they're not ready for--but to actually take up proper connection with what they're able to give you now, which will make it possible to increase that strength over time.

In both videos the rein connection does not stay as consistent as it could be--the rein comes slack often. A shorter rein and a hand that moves will help keep the consistent connection to get the better quality work. I know this is much easier said than done, it's something i have to work hard at with MM who can get very light in the bridle and I think everything is great until I realize my reins are actually a mile long and and any impulsion i'm creating is just falling out of an open window. But the more I remind myself to keep the reins short enough that I can feel the connection, the better the work gets.

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Re: The video thread

Postby demi » Thu Jan 06, 2022 1:01 am

blob wrote:
demi wrote: my horse developing the posture that allows me to shorten the reins and at the same time not straighten my elbows, or else pull back with my hands. It’s like putting teeth into proper allingnment with braces. It has to happen gradually over time. Sure enough, some riders and trainers are quite good at it and get it done quickly. I cant just shorten my rein that easily and have to go the long way around.


I don't know that I fully agree with this. Of course, a horse's frame will get higher and more collected over time and therefore you will need a shorter rein to have a connection to the bit. That does take time. But usually when the tip is to 'shorten your reins' it's not to shorten the horse's neck and crank them up to a head set they're not ready for--but to actually take up proper connection with what they're able to give you now, which will make it possible to increase that strength over time.

In both videos the rein connection does not stay as consistent as it could be--the rein comes slack often. A shorter rein and a hand that moves will help keep the consistent connection to get the better quality work. I know this is much easier said than done, it's something i have to work hard at with MM who can get very light in the bridle and I think everything is great until I realize my reins are actually a mile long and and any impulsion i'm creating is just falling out of an open window. But the more I remind myself to keep the reins short enough that I can feel the connection, the better the work gets.


Good point, Blob. Yes, consistent contact is an issue here. I need to work on it and it helps to think it through when I’m off the horse. And watching the videos helps even more because I can remember what it felt like, and then see what I was feeling. What I was feeling in those videos didnt feel good, but after watching it, and having it pointed out to me, I am making a connection (no pun intended haha) I do appreciate “tips”.

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Re: The video thread

Postby StraightForward » Thu Jan 06, 2022 1:27 am

Interesting discussion! One thing I'm learning is to remember to look for opportunities to shorten my reins within the ride as the horse comes together. Usually it happens during/immediately after some SI or multiple transitions. There is that moment that the horse "comes together" and that is the opportunity to shorten the reins and ride into the new contact. From there of course there will be periods of letting the horse stretch, but they should come into a shorter rein more easily throughout the ride.
Keep calm and canter on.

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Re: The video thread

Postby Anne » Thu Jan 06, 2022 2:17 am

Super useful discussion everyone, thanks! Chisamba, yes!! More leg in the down transitions. And thanks for posting video of you and Saiph, that's helpful. I really like your description here: "The horse must truly step under themselves to carry their balance behind so that they do not need to lift or brace their neck to stop". (sorry, I haven't worked out the quote function). I *know* this, but your description just clicked with me, and is such a good reminder.

And I also like the idea of 'start walking' instead of 'stop trotting' (thanks Blob!).

I won't ride today, but will try to put these ideas into practice tomorrow, and see if I can get some video.

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Re: The video thread

Postby Tanga » Thu Jan 06, 2022 2:47 am

Let me explain my thinking on shorter reins more. And, again, to be clear, I think I "almost" have it finally figured out after 40 years of riding.

It isn't necessarily about the rein length, though it can be. It's more about where it puts the rider. When you have longer reins, the rider tends to have the hands down and forward, the elbows away from the side, and usually at least slightly leaning forward. It is MUCH harder to ride this way. It puts a lot of strain on your lower back, it's harder to keep your legs strong and steady, and you have no leverage. But it seems the natural state for almost everyone to go to. I have been working with a couple of people lately, from sort of intermediate to very experienced, and they were doing the exact same thing. I am reminding myself of this every single day. I might be getting to where it is automatic.

What I see when I shorten my reins and keep my elbows at my side is that the horse can still be on a longer rein, but I am balanced and up over the balance towards the hind end, so the horse can carry back there better and let the back and whither come up, so the neck more naturally shortens and everything comes into my lap. When helping these riders, i saw the exact same thing. And no matter the level, all of the horses settle and feel more secure in that more balanced position.

I have been working on both Q's on super collected and up and forward but through, not flipping the head, which is a lot of work, and of course needs the short rein, but giving. I do a lot of allowing the neck down to stretch in between that and really try to work on keep that same up, balanced position as I let them do it.

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Re: The video thread

Postby Chisamba » Thu Jan 06, 2022 4:48 am

Tanga, very much agree with its less about the reins length and more about where it puts the riders arms but I am the opposite in that I was trained to ride with elbows close to my ribs and my upper arm vertical, now i find my contact is more sympathetic with my elbow bent but slightly forward of the perfect vertical. But not straight arms and not low hands.

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Re: The video thread

Postby Chisamba » Thu Jan 06, 2022 7:28 am

Two videos.

In the first I was trying to get more forward into the downward transition, but she left her hind legs out behind, lost balance and pulled down on the reins. If you observe something else I would be interested. https://youtube.com/shorts/oFyQyI9saBw?feature=share

On the second I was in a clinic, we really worked on between the legs and I rode the transition slightly shoulder fore. I think the improved balance is obvious. Again observations would interest me. https://youtube.com/shorts/p4TkrAxlkpg?feature=share

So riding slightly shoulder fore encouraged me to find the balance forward but not rushed.

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Re: The video thread

Postby Tanga » Thu Jan 06, 2022 8:46 pm

Chismaba--lucky you to have the training. Maybe the issue with the low arms is more with people who didn't early on have someone correcting that a lot.

On the first video, I didn't really see loss of balance. I saw she did a nice transition, and then maybe had a tweak or it was a little hard, so she pushed her nose out and did a high step behind.

On the second video, I use shoulder fore for everything, too, when they don't seem to quite get it, aren't strong enough, or whatever. Great method.

What I see is she is coming up with her head in the down transitions. What I would add to the shoulder fore is to focus on keeping her giving in that contact through the transition, however you can do that, so that the focus is that she stays supple and giving, even nodding the head down. Perhaps the slowest transition ever, almost transitions, etc., teaching her it's the giving and supple you really want, not just the transition. She looks very much like my older mare in this, the mother of the Q's.

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Re: The video thread

Postby blob » Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:00 pm

Chisamba--

On the first video, my take was that it seems like she didn't really have the opportunity to be prepared for the transition. You go from medium trot that gets a bit more on the forehand towards the end to the downward transition, so she didn't have the opportunity to half halt and be rocked back before coming to the walk. Because the transition was a bit abrupt, you also leaned forward (or got thrown forward), which added to a less balanced transition.

In the second video, not only is the transition smoother, but the trot quality going into the transition is noticeably more uphill and balanced as well.

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Re: The video thread

Postby demi » Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:39 am

This is a clip of trot-walk transition from today. Yes, it has a ways to go, but I feel there is improvement since this thread started. A lot of the comments you all have made have resonated with me. One of the things Tanga said was that no matter the level, all of the horses settle and feel more secure in the shorter rein balance (not an exact quote but something to that effect). I think this will prove especially true with Rocky. There were lots of other really good comments from this board and I am working on them☺️.

https://youtu.be/DvSmxl_ScCY

(If you notice the clucking it isn’t me!! It’s my chickens who were hanging around the Pivo!)


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