Canter fitness: riders

[khall]

I’m running into fitness issues riding Joplin’s canter. Not something I’ve had issues with before and I think it’s because she has such a huge lofty canter to ride way different than I’m used to. Her trot is easy to sit even medium trot. Does not tire me out. But the canter is another story. Anyone have some thoughts? Im wondering if I need to move between light seat and sitting. Go back and forth some.

Riding CC does help to contain that big stride making it less strenuous to ride. I’ve run into issues previously especially with my WBs keeping them going not really a problem with Joplin it’s more trying to package the canter up a bit. Contain that huge elevated stride some.

[piedmontfields]

For me, being able to do good canter work for 10 minutes straight takes about the same amount of fitness as doing a slow jog or fast walk for 10 minutes straight. I don't know if that helps with perspective. I personally find the lofty, bounding canters generally easier to sit than the flatter, more earthbound canters.

However---I used to ride a Friesian sometimes and cantering that beast took a lot of fitness from me, because it was both climb-y and with tendencies to crash on the forehand if that makes any sense. But mostly that was in the abs, not cardio.

[StraightForward]

I don't have experience with this particular issue, but the past year + I've been doing a lot of exploration of my own asymmetries and weak points. Last summer trying to sit Tesla's big trot enough to get her into canter was super hard. I went through DRT 1 and have been doing some other things to overall increase the evenness and utility of my postural muscles. I've noticed that a lot of it is in the ribs, and that somewhere deep in my core under the left ribs are some really lazy muscles that have been hiding out, so I've been working to recruit them with work on a yoga ball, mountain climbers and others. They're still reluctant, but I can summon more of a chain of support through my left side and I find sitting Tesla's trot much easier now, and I have better ability to independently utilize different muscles in my core. I'm sure there are more layers to the onion, but this is just to point out that it's usually much more complicated than "do this exercise to strengthen this muscle" because there's so much nuance to maintaining the relaxation (which preserves energy as well as suppleness) without ending up crooked or floppy.

[blob]

Does it feel like strength or stamina? Meaning does it feel like you don't quite have the strength to sustain the strength and position you need to package her canter? Or does it feel like you have the strength but you can't sustain that for very long? I only ask because I might suggest different tips for each.

[khall]

Blob it is the lack of stamina that I’m dealing with when riding the bigger canter. Joplin cannot sustain the more together canter for very long yet so we move between a more together canter to a big rolling canter think medium canter on most horses but add loft to that canter. When I get into the light seat I can just let her roll underneath and not get winded. It’s trying to keep up with that canter sitting on it tires me out.

[Ponichiwa]

How's your breathing in the canter? Can sometimes feel like a stamina issue when in fact we just need to breathe more and/or deeper.

[khall]

Ponichiwa that is a good point. I probably need to have better breathing.

I know fitness and strength wise I’m in better shape than I have ever been doing Pilates twice weekly and strength training. For me riding Joplin’s canter is like riding those big bouncy trots. More movement to keep up with than I’m used to. I may be holding my breath some with my concentration of trying to keep up with her. The CC packages her canter up nicely making it easier to ride it.

[blob]

Blob it is the lack of stamina that I’m dealing with when riding the bigger canter. Joplin cannot sustain the more together canter for very long yet so we move between a more together canter to a big rolling canter think medium canter on most horses but add loft to that canter. When I get into the light seat I can just let her roll underneath and not get winded. It’s trying to keep up with that canter sitting on it tires me out.

Based on the fact that you can do light seat and not get winded, it makes me think it actually is a strength issue in riding that bigger, loftier canter less than a stamina issue!

I know you already do a lot of transition work but I might try doing sitting trot to canter with short periods of canter (just a few strides_ but over a long period of time. So that it almost becomes like the canter periods are reps of lifting weights but you do like several reps in a set, then take a break and do another set.

Another option could be to alternate from half seat to sitting, though I sometimes personally find the alternating physically harder than maintaining one or the other.

[khall]

Blob very good point on longer periods of TC transitions. It’s been a long time since I’ve done half seat to sitting work in canter. I think it might be worth exploring though with Joplin. Her trot is just so easy to sit even the bigger medium trot is not that difficult but boy her canter takes more out of me. The heat is not helping. Rode last weekend with heat and humidity and almost did too much was not sure I was going to make it back to the barn. Joplin though was not even breathing harder.

I’m trying to embrace what chisamba had said about having better canter is on horses that canter a good bit in their training. Pushing Joplin and I to do more cantering as well as doing more canter exercises

[blob]

The heat is really tough--especially when it first gets warm. We've had such an usual spring and I find that late spring is often tougher for me than summer because my body is trying to adjust. By august everything is just HOT and so we've all done some adapting.

I am working on the strength and stamina to sit RP's trot and I find a lot of sets does help me. So I do a lot of walk/trot or even trot/halt and making myself really sit it and hold it together for 3-5 sides, then transition out and then do it again and again for maybe a total of 15-20 minutes. but those little transitions out of the trot give me a chance to refocus my seat. I also think the transitions help package the trot a bit more for me. So hopefully the transition sets will do the same for you and Joplin.

[piedmontfields]

Blob, those are good tips. I will remember them for when we get back to canter work! (fingers crossed)

[demi]

Im trying to build stamina too. Additionally, I need to stretch and strengthen my hip tendons. I am working out a plan of action, but it is trial and error at the moment as I haven’t worked out a regular program yet. I am thinking it will help to use the Equilab app every time I ride to get a good idea of how much actual time I’m spending at trot AND canter. Once i have a baseline, I can increase the time gradually.

I love my PRE!! But she doesn’t have that easy to sit trot that PRE’s are supposed to have. It’s definitely easier than Rocky’s but it still takes a lot of work from me. Her canter is big, and while quite comfortable, it still requires a lot of stamina and core strength from me to keep her in front of my legs and ME not hanging on the bit.

Ive had some distractions in the last few weeks, new horse, sick relatives, etc. etc., but I am now getting back to my resistance plus aerobic training program. That helps A LOT!!!

[khall]

I felt better and more comfortable with the canter work Sunday. It was not always pretty but had some lovely work once we got the kinks ironed out. Lots and lots of transitions combined with longer episodes of staying in canter. No light seat though. Grass is a bit deep.

Keep us posted on your new mare Demi!! She’s lovely !

I’ve compared the PREs I’ve ridden to the Lusitanos I’ve ridden. The Lusitano are easier to sit. I struggled with the PREs. Joplin is of course not full and her dam was easy to sit as well (Han/TB) but the full Lusitanos I rode in Portugal were all lovely to sit on. I know you will quickly get there with your mare though! The video you posted was extremely nice work. These Iberians are just so much fun!

[piedmontfields]

Interesting comment khall on the PREs vs. PSLs. What is different conformationally that you've noticed?

[khall]

Piedmont truly not much difference in their conformation. The PREs just tended to be tighter in their backs. The main one I rode and loved was extremely sensitive to ride. The big difference between the two schools I rode at was the Valenca’s (Portugal) never did stretch much at Epona (Spain) they did every ride every gait.

The main horse I rode at the Valenca’s had been a bull fighter and had not had great training originally. The PRE at Epona had not been used for lessons before only ridden by the trainer who rode pretty strongly on that sensitive horse.

The other PREs and Lusitanos I rode were of varying sensitivity. Still much lighter to ride than WBs. The Valenca’s also work much more for higher collection early with most of their horses having piaffe on them. At Epona not as much.

So while I found a definite difference on riding the two breeds I do think it was more connected to the training at the different stables more than the breeds. I think the emphasis on collection at the Valenca’s gave one a better place to sit. At least that is my theory:)

As for Joplin her dam was just very smooth to sit on and Joplin is the same. They have that suppleness of gait and soft to sit on back that is just easy to sit on trot wise. Joplin once she gets stronger and better together more consistently her canter will be easy to sit on as well. The counter canter gives me that inkling and the times when we basically canter on the spot she just cannot sustain that level of collection over long periods of canter yet though we are building up to it!

Both the PREs and Lusitanos had good canters to sit on. Very animated

[Chisamba]

I'm an advocate of ' just do it'. If you need canter fitness, canter more for longer. Use the timer on your watch. Gradually increase the time in canter. And breathe.

[Moutaineer]

That "breathe" thing is the trick, though, isn't it?

[piedmontfields]

Breathing is key! Because I learned to ride as an adult (starting at age 30), I do remember having to count out loud when I was learning to canter for longer periods of time. Doing it out loud helped me breath regularly and not die after cantering 2 20 m circles I have also used a metronome to help me with consistent breathing over the years.

[khall]

It was an interesting ride yesterday in the field. My one flat hay field had hay cut on it so could not ride there. My arena is having work done on it so could not ride there so Joplin and I headed to my other hay field which is not flat at all and right now is knee deep in grass getting ready to cut it here shortly. Trotting we were fine but cantering in the deep grass with varying levels was rather disorienting to me. Almost the feel of vertigo a bit head swimmy. Now I easily get motion sickness which I’m sure this was it. Just weird though the deep grass with the ups and downs of the field caused it. I’ve ridden the canter out there when the grass was short no issues. Even cantering downhill which is something I never did with Rip. Of course the deep grass gives Joplin even more animation. She handled it just fine and we kept it together I just felt queasy riding the canter though.

Denny Emerson on FB shared some riding thoughts from Carl Hester. Very appropriate to this thread!

Chisamba I am embracing your suggestion of do more cantering! Both for the development of Joplin and Gaila and for my fitness . I do enjoy being able to ride out in my fields in this work. Very helpful

[chantal]

I'm guessing it's the cardio. As piedmontfields pointed out, you can compare it to jogging or, for me, cycling. It's one of the reasons I keep biking with hubby 1 or 2 days a week for an hour or so in the woods on our mountain bikes or hop on my bike on the trainer in the basement for 30 mins, I want to maintain my cardio. The fact that I can hop on my mountain bike and go for an hour and keep up with DH shows how fit riding Mikey is keeping me. The quality of our work is much better this year, and his rehab earlier this year was a lot of work for both of us, and very good for both of us. At one point I was riding for an hour and 5 minutes.

It's interesting, after racing bikes and doing so much yoga, I think my breath control is pretty good. I've had instructors tell me to breathe because they can't see or hear me breathing. When they can hear me, I'm ready for a break.

[Chisamba]

Interesting about vertigo riding in long grass. In Zambia they say the long grass whispers but I often thought it looked like an ocean so I can understand a sort of sea sickness.