lengthenings for a spicy jalapeno!

[Xanthoria]

Hello all!

Long time no see. I have been eventing my green baby mare (just turned 6!) and she's been doing GREAT. We regularly get ribbons and moved up to Novice this year. Trainer is saying we need to do some straight dressage over the winter because that's our weak spot, and I can't deny it! Additionally, we need to learn how to do a lengthening because that's in the test at Training level eventing.

The problem is I've only ever taught a horse a lengthening and it was a LONG time ago and we trotted along a 1 mile grassy path until she found a longer, not faster trot.

Current horse is spicy. She would love to trot everywhere FAST. We don't have a long, grassy path - we have a smallish arena.

Can anyone share some great exercises to help her learn this? Forward on the long side and back on the short side is always fast and slow, not lengthened and collected.

Halp!

[mari]

I'm really not the right person to answer this (I've found literally anything in the world easier to teach my horse than medium trot...), but here are some things that have sort of helped.

When you hit the long side, SI, then straighten into lengthen. Back to SI before the corner.

Practice big trot/little trot in SI. This question breaks their brains a bit, but really useful.

On the long side, ride a series of 10m circles at each letter. On the straight bits, try for super round and collected, and then push for the lengthen on the 10m circle itself, focussing on the bend and the STEP for the circle.

I think these exercises help me, because collection/extension is part of the same see-saw. Working on your collection will also lead to an improvement in extension (so says the theory anyway).

[exvet]

Mari has given some great exercises that I also find work well. It's really a lot of back and forth - coiling the spring and then letting it out. One key is to not get too greedy and to teach her how to 'carry' herself - within reason for her stage of training of course. By this I mean you need to do a lot of half halts and collecting the balance after just a few strides of a longer stride so that she can build the strength and understand that falling on to the forehand and racing around is NOT what you want. I typically try for 3 longer strides and then collect, 3 longer strides and then collect regardless of where I am, and I will often do this through the short side too. Remember it's the response to your request to lengthen that you want to reward when it's right so if she just speeds up go back to the working/more collected gait. While I do use a TON of SI, I will also ask for lengthening after a short leg yield and will leg yield back and forth off each leg with 3-4 lengthening stride in between each request to move off one leg. Again I'm trying to teach balance, self carriage and when I use both legs - move forward into my hand and raise the wither (or in the beginning at least not dump and run). Hope this helps. Junior had to do A LOT of short bursts of lengthen before it became automatic to really lengthen but he eventually got it.

[blob]

this is not a strength of mine, so take all suggestions I have with a grain of salt...but I recently was working with a clinician who basically stressed a couple key points:

1. make sure when you ask for more, you don't throw things away in front otherwise that energy just escapes out the door
2. you need to feel the body surge forward, sometimes to get this feeling you need to let the horse get a bit quick, it's only once you get that feeling that you want to start thinking about really getting the tempo right
3. You don't get a medium trot overnight. It's ok if the lengthenings at first don't have a ton of sit, it takes time to build strength

[heddylamar]

Have you tried canter lengthenings yet? I find those easier to introduce and refine with forward horses. Trot lengthenings come much quicker after they understand the idea.

When I was teaching Anz, she reacted by going faster for a solid year. It took some time, and lots of canter lengthenings, then it finally clicked out on the trail. She'd lengthened going up a hill, so I collected her, then asked again on the flat.

[Ryeissa]

How are your half halts?

[khall]

I find using lateral work and pushing the trot in the lateral work to be helpful. SI counter SI LY etc. Also that classic SI straighten across the diagonal lengthen.

Another interesting one that I was doing yesterday was toh to lengthen trot halt toh. Key is a good toh.

Use your corners to engage the horse. Try it on the circle as well. Legs back engage the forward at the girth and hug them to lengthen.

Watch your posting. Keep the up phase just a bit longer to encourage longer rather than quicker strides.

I did watch a lesson years ago where the clinician had the rider just push the horse in the arena rounding the corners until he went from quickening to longer strides.

[Xanthoria]

@Ryeissa the half halts are pretty good I think.

@heddylamar she has a huge canter stride but I the jump saddle we have recently found a new collected canter and we can power out if that to a jump! Coming back to it is a bit (a lot!) harder

@khall I have done the “trot for longer/faster until they lengthen” thing before but I feel our arena might be too small for that. Maybe not!

Loving all the exercises- thanks everyone!

[Moutaineer]

We work these on a large circle rather than long sides. It makes for easy endless repetition without interruptions.
A few strides forward, then back. Rinse and repeat. Use the coming back as a balancing aid to get the weight over the hind end for the push into the forward. Like rebalancing before a jump.

And I'm sure you've been bashed over the head with the "two ends of the pendulum--you can't get extension without collection" thing.

I'm guessing you have half halts and the ability to collect if you are running cross country and jumping solid obstacles. You just need to distill that feeling.

[blob]

Trot poles are another thing to play with. I've actually never found them super helpful in TEACHING the lengthening to start, but they do help build the strength and can be a nice way to teach more cadence/wait/sit once a horse already has a sense of lengthening.

[Xanthoria]

I'm guessing you have half halts and the ability to collect if you are running cross country and jumping solid obstacles. You just need to distill that feeling.

Well I would say it's more of an "animated discussion" about whether to slow down before an xc jump right now, but we're getting there

Forward and back on a circle for just a few strides you say? Hm. I have been doing too many forward strides... on a straight line. Will try that!

[Xanthoria]

Trot poles are another thing to play with. I've actually never found them super helpful in TEACHING the lengthening to start, but they do help build the strength and can be a nice way to teach more cadence/wait/sit once a horse already has a sense of lengthening.

I need to be less lazy about setting out poles (and cavaletti!)

[Chisamba]

I fund poles worthless to teach a quick horse to lengthen. Thatb is my personal experience so others may do this better than me. With a novice horse I like to leg yield out a few strides on the circle making it oval. Most horses slow slightly for the lateral work. Then use the slightly slowed tempo and simply lengthen the neck without lowering it and the horse with stride longer into the space you created lengthening the neck. Do not go for too much until your horse grasps the concept. Just lengthen the neck an inch keeping the poll slightly higher than the withers.

[heddylamar]

Maia and I have a distinct lack of back at the canter too! My new barn owner/trainer was admiring the canter lengthening a few rides ago, and then laughing at my wild attempts to collect before we barreled through the arena gate

Trot lengthening is far more mannerly ... and far less exciting!

[Kyras_Mom]

With my mare, I couldn’t get any decent lengthening on a circle.

In her early days, she carried a lot of tension and it basically took a lot of forward and back for her to find that gear. SI prior to asking for the lengthening also helped. I also tried to do short diagonals…using the whole long diagonal was just asking for speed. When she gave it to me it was like wow, it is in there! I was beginning to think she didn’t have a true lengthening. It just took awhile to find it. Keep searching .

Susan

[Chancellor]

I absolutely use trot poles to help with the idea. The thing to do is to have a ground person to help!
Start with some normal length trot poles. Then push the last two out a little to help her get the idea to take a longer stride!

[piedmontfields]

Glad you are having fun with your spicy mare, X!

Tons of great ideas in this thread. In general, it sounds like you are asking for too many lengthened strides at this point. Agree with the points to seek 2-3 strides, then gather/"collect" again and re-balance. You can using the arena fence or geometry (circles/shapes) to help you with the gathering.

I love doing this work on a circle. I've been taught "the circle of death" aka the circle that transforms the trot: Establish shoulder in on a circle, release to go forward a stride or three, then shoulder out, release go forward, then traverse, release go forward, then travers, release go forward. With a baby/training level horse, it would likely be just a touch of shoulder in and shoulder out. With a more developed (stronger) horse, I could do the whole set. It changes the balance, builds the butt, and sets your horse up to be strong enough to carry the lengthening without running.

I am also a fan of teaching horses to do a lot of variations of trot (again, on a circle initially, so that I don't run out of room or geometric support). This is all about coiling the spring of the hind end and teaching the horse to re-balance in a very responsive way.

I ride at an eventing barn and would like to note that my dear barn mates (who are quite talented---many riding Prelim or above) find these exercises incredibly difficult. But they work.

[Ryeissa]

so play with half halts and make the lengthening come one or two steps in the rebalancing
I'm not a fan of "more faster" so I tend to stick with a few steps at a time. If they go on the forehand during rushing it only makes it harder.

[Tanga]

I agree with circles because it makes it less from "here to here" and more about doing it and forcing the inside to collect.

Teach "passage/piaffe" in some kind of form, so coming back is more up like that. Think more forward passage.

It really depends on the judge, and the trends change as to what you're better off doing. It used to be going fast was good. Janet Foy did a whole symposium, and I was sitting with Jane Ayers looking at a 3rd level "extension" with no length of step. We were talking about whether it was a 4 or 5. She asked Janet, and she said it was a 7 because it was balanced and uphill. So, according to Janet, if the poll is highest and it's balance, you can get a 7 with no lengthening.

When I judge or scribe, which I have done about 15 times this year, at the lower levels, it's hard to see much of anything most of the time. Go for rhythm and carriage and let it a little out. Go for less and up and balanced and rhythmic, not so forward. If you have all of that energy, I would try to use it to rethink to a "bouncy" up trot instead of forward, because that is not working for you well. Play with mixing it up like that, so all of the energy makes a bigger, slower (not really, but feels like it) trot, and then comes back to the easier one.

[Xanthoria]

Maia and I have a distinct lack of back at the canter too! My new barn owner/trainer was admiring the canter lengthening a few rides ago, and then laughing at my wild attempts to collect before we barreled through the arena gate

Yeah at my last jump lesson we almost hit the end wall because mare was galloping off after a line and trying to do one of her classic turn and burn moves, then tho I was asking her to stay straight, and stop. So! Much! Drama!

[Xanthoria]

Do not go for too much until your horse grasps the concept. Just lengthen the neck an inch keeping the poll slightly higher than the withers.

I have been asking for too much and throwing away the contact