Things I used to totally believe that are just not true

[Chisamba]

Feel free to add yours.

Number one. The horse cannot extend its hoof past where it's nose is pointing. Having seen enough super slow motion horses with compressed necks and nose pointing to the chests/ footfall land well beyond where the nose is pointing. I know this little bit of thinking to simply be untrue. I have even seen it with horses at liberty arching their necks for fun.

Number two, the pirouette is a canter. If the canter is a 3 beat gait with a moment of suspension then the pirouette is simply not a canter.

And finally after pouring through many many minutes of horses trotting liberty when a horse is self motivated to power its hind end it automatically drops its poll below its crest. When it is poll highest, it's not taking as big a stride behind.

[Tanga]

Yeah. I remember going through various judging seminars and talking about this. The pirouette is especially controversial because too many people still say it is three beat when it's not, and the "best" pirouettes are clearly not three beat.

There are a lot of old understandings that changed with video cameras and inspection of what we think versus what we see.

I will hold steady with a super talented horse can be pushed faster--BS. A super talented horse still needs the same time to condition and strengthen, but a super talented horse can be pushed into fakery and long lasting damage faster.

[Chisamba]

Tanga, i agree. just because you can, ( push a horse faster) doesn't mean you should. Maybe one should give them when more time to carefully mature that talent.

[Moutaineer]

To your third point, Chisamba. Jeremy S was saying last weekend that he thinks this line we have about dressage just being training things that horses do naturally at liberty (paraphrasing this) is "complete effing bullshit" (bowdlerizing this.)

[Flight]

I think number one is for where the foot lands, is where the nose is pointing? It can flick out past the nose but tends to land down where the nose is pointing.

And yep number 2. I think even in the FEI guidelines they've said with slow mo cameras you can pick up the 4 beat. But it should still be like a canter. The prop and lurch around type piris were more popular but I think it's going back to the looks more like a canter style.

Interesting number 3. I tried to do vid with my horse in lengthened trot with an open frame higher frame vs lower closed frame. I'll see if I can add it.

[Chisamba]

I think number one is for where the foot lands, is where the nose is pointing? It can flick out past the nose but tends to land down where the nose is pointing.
No it doesn't. I have screenshot many photos to check exactly that point.


And yep number 2. I think even in the FEI guidelines they've said with slow mo cameras you can pick up the 4 beat. But it should still be like a canter. The prop and lurch around type piris were more popular but I think it's going back to the looks more like a canter style.

Interesting number 3. I tried to do vid with my horse in lengthened trot with an open frame higher frame vs lower closed frame. I'll see if I can add it.

Well I agree that training dressage is not what horses do at liberty, ( moutaineer) but I started to realize after years or riding poll highest point, that I was not listening to my horses who want to drop to add power so I liked at other horses at liberty and my horse at liberty videos and when they are goofing around neck is high and nose is out, but when they want to power up. They almost always drop poll below crest.

The thing about these three discoveried is that I don't even care if others agree or not. I only care because I have grown to believe poll highest point is as abusive as excessively contracted necks and I let my horses tell me where they wsnt to work as they strengthen.

I'll ad a vid and screenshot. I started thinking about this when i realized you can teach a horse to bow. Nose tucked feet out. Suddenly the brain said obviously it is not an impossibility for the foot to touch the ground beyond where the nose is pointing. This young horse got super hyped up on the longe and was powering around.

[Chisamba]

So I like this vid because he is a really nice looking horse just fooling around. As he does, he puts his head and neck in many postures. Up and playful, flicky elevated stride , dropped poll huge stide behind and powerful .

https://youtu.be/MLbXqherx-I

[Flight]

Gosh he's lovely isn't he. I hope you dont mind this turning into a discussion, i'm not out to change your mind with my opinions. They are interesting topics.
I spent years trying to have my horses poll highest point and they didn't develop properly. Maybe I was doing it wrong. Probably. So I spent 12 months with my little black horse riding him forward down (not overly round) to develop his topline better. And it worked. So yeah, getting obsessed with poll high can be wrong.

[Chisamba]

Actually I like the discussion but I don't mind if no one changes their mind because I have. Lol

[exvet]

I agree that the horse in the video is to die for in my not so humble opinion. While I do try to keep mine up and open, it isn't the god almighty quest to keep the poll the highest point that drives me. It's the fact that I have breeds that are rather 'thick' through the throatlatch as it is. It's simple conformation and physics that drives me to keep their airways open. That being said, my other focus is also the feel I have under my backside. I'm going to place their head and neck wherever I am able to get that back to lift my backside up (or at least meet it) and still keep the power coming through from the hind end because it's reaching up under my seat and not left back on the East Coast where I used to reside. So if that means I have to lower the poll, like with Brandon, so-be-it. I use the muscling over their topline and especially through their back end to tell me if I'm heading in the right direction or not. His has improved quite a bit simply with me focusing on feeling his back come up under me which often means his poll isn't the highest point while schooling <gasp> Now my hope is that as he builds more strength we can keep his poll more up but to be honest even with it not the highest point he really doesn't give the appearance of being way behind the vertical

As for the nose pointing and the toe landing, well I come from a long, long line of a family that used working horses (Morgans and draft) for both putting food on the table (wood mill, logging) and show. My grandfather won many a class due to a beauty of a chestnut stallion who could outstep his shadow (as he would say) whether in the lines or under saddle..........Morgan of course.

[Chisamba]

I quite love that term " outstep his shadow"