Assessment lesson: is this normal?

Xanthoria · Postby **Xanthoria** » Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:49 pm

Due to ongoing broken horse issues, I've decided to take some jump lessons on school horses.

I approached a local Grand Prix jump rider and asked him for a lesson. Yep, no problem. Showed up, a very shy working student tacked up for me, and then we went to the arena where GP rider was on his stallion. Um, turned out to be a lesson with the working student where I could barely hear her, learned NOTHING except that, as she confessed, "GP rider teaches weird aids - I can't get the horses to canter either...", trotted a few cavaletti and it was $150.

OK THEN. :shock:

I've approached another jumper trainer. This time I thought to ask in advance. Yep, $140 for an "assessment" and will be given by an assistant who is not mentioned on the website. After that, 30 minute lessons are $130 each if bought in a package. OH! And they encourage their students to hang out after the lesson and groom the horse and clean tack. Actually this is genius.... get people to pay you $130 to have a light ride and clean your tack for you? Pero guao.

Is this normal? (Apparently so in my area) I am really wondering if I need to be paying this much for some kid who has been riding for a few years... and I suspect that as a school horse rider I'll get short shrift compared to the owner clients who show... IOW my goals won't be taken seriously and I won't get quality instruction.

musical comedy · Postby **musical comedy** » Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:04 am

I haven't taken a jump lesson on a school horse for a long time.

When I was eventing, I shipped over to a hunter/jumper barn to get jumping lessons. Almost always, they were small group lessons with 2-4 people. This imo is a good thing in a jumping lesson. This trainer was good and the people in the lessons were all about the same ability and owned their own horses.

However, this was also a lesson barn with school horses. The person that taught those lessons was not the main instructor. I have no idea what level that person was. This I found to be true way back at hunter barns. The people teaching on school horses are not the top trainers. I mean...that to me is a bit of a no brainer. Because...generally speaking, people that are taking lessons on school horses just aren't very good riders. Therefore, top trainers do not want to work with them. And also, school horses generally aren't very nice either. Otherwise they wouldn't be school horses.

Tsavo · Postby **Tsavo** » Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:42 am

Is there someone who has a horse who needs to be exercised? My present BO had a second horse who she wanted exercised and asked our farrier if he knew anyone who needed saddle time. I had just retired my horse to the property next door. It was wonderful having a horse to ride and I brought my horse to that property. Then my horse came sound and I had TWO horses and that was tight. Then my horse decided he could not stay consistently sound so I retired him again. And I still have the other horse to ride indefinitely.

My BO lost her horse to an injury and managed to find another TB to ride who she brought to the property and is really bringing him around with correct riding. He is doing so well and she will be eventing him this fall I think. She has decided she can't return him back to his old situation and seems to be keeping him indefinitely.

Maybe there is some horse you can just ride indefinitely also.

Kyra's Mom · Postby **Kyra's Mom** » Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:38 am

Second situation just sounds bizarre. Great for the trainer getting paid to get all THEIR barn work and grooming done.

I second checking around for a catch ride. Straightforward has been riding my horse while I seem to be perpetually recovering from some surgery or another. It has worked out great for both of us. I know that may not get you jump lessons. All of those are much too rich for my blood anyway.

Good luck,
Susan

heddylamar · Postby **heddylamar** » Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:08 am

Keep looking. That may be the going rate/situation in your area, but I think you need a bigger sample size.

My current trainer charges $80 for an intense 30 minute private session for haul-ins (there is no walking and talking things through!). She does all instruction, no one else is in the arena, and there are zero distractions. I don't know if she has any lesson horses, but I need to text her to find out (we're still experiencing "get your butt in the trailer and STAY there" problems, plus, now SICK mare

).

blob · Postby **blob** » Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:43 am

Every lesson I've taken the expectation was that I would take care of grooming and cleaning the tack of the horse i rode. So, that doesn't seem odd to me at all. I rode the horse, I should make sure the horse and its equipment were taken care of.

The lessons being useless however does not seem normal. And at that price you should not be taught by the working student.

Some barns and trainers seem to not really have a lesson program as much as a training program. Others have a lesson program that is very established and clear--maybe look for a barn like that even if there trainer isn't quite at big name?

Xanthoria · Postby **Xanthoria** » Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:22 pm

I’d be OK with cleaning tack if it was a less expensive lesson, and at a barn that charges less than about $1500+ per month for board with compulsory training on top… At that price I kind of expect to have the horses groomed and tacked for me... When you see either of these barns at a show each rider has their own groom. And they couch tack cleaning as a lesson in horsemanship. Which I have 35 years of experience in… :lol:

Perhaps both these barn just cater to adult amateurs or kids who have lots of money and not so much horse experience. They sell a lot of imported warm bloods and go to all the big A shows, so it seems to be working for them.

In my area there aren’t many barns that are not total backyard that have a good school horses. Most places cater to the extremely wealthy because the Hunter Jumper scene here is huge.

I totally agree that a catch ride would be amazing! I’ve put the feelers out but nothing has come up so if anyone knows of anything in the SF peninsula area… :mrgreen:

Postby **Chancellor** » Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:21 pm

Certainly not around here. Those prices are ridiculous...and to ride with a working student??? Seriously?
Maybe find a smaller barn.

piedmontfields · Postby **piedmontfields** » Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:09 am

First off, this sounds crappy, Xan. Is there any way you could expand your territory north or south?

This does remind me of a lesson many years ago with a H/J + GP J trainer. I loved talking to him on the phone because he said "There is no point in talking. I just need to see you on a horse!"

That said, our first lesson (DH and I shared a lesson, which was smart) was actually awesome...but painful for DH (lots of sitting and standing canter and trot). We didn't continue much beyond this due to us being "lesson people" vs. expensive horse owners, but the real deal trainer did teach us. Years later we refer to learning how to properly "stand up" and how it is related to "sitting down." :lol:

Xanthoria · Postby **Xanthoria** » Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:20 am

piedmont I should expand territory - you're right.

I did find a good lead on an Irish sporthorse to part lease about 15 mins away today. Going to try her soon!

And I had my "assessment" lesson today. For a very fancy barn, this guy was a real beginner safe gelding... kick ride, stiff as a board, knows his job inside out over 2'... didn't learn anything, but had a pleasant enough 30 mins with a very nice assistant trainer. Not worth $140 by any stretch: unless head trainer contacts me to say "obviously you're ready for bigger things: come back and we'll put you on a good horse" I will not be back...

PS I did not clean any tack. :twisted:

PPS got the price list: $1500 for training and 2 lessons/week. Add $175/lesson for more lessons. Add $150 a month for barn supplies. Just want school horse lessons? $1190/month, going up to $1800/month after 3 months so you can ride just the one horse, and $600/week show lease fee on top if you show: $2400/month on average... for 2 lessons a week... that's $300/30 min lesson... :shock:

NEXT!

scruffy the cat · Postby **scruffy the cat** » Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:54 am

That's totally crazy.

I'm taking 3 lessons a week on a Fourth level school horse and they are $75/ea. Yes, I tack up myself. :lol:

That's crazy. They shouldn't be that hard to find. Where do all the hunter/jumper kids go?

Quelah · Postby **Quelah** » Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:31 pm

You need to find someone like me, too bad you're not closer! My BFF the younger is showing both my boys this year, we're having a blast. She has a real job, and it's fairly intense, so can only ride weekend and occasionally one weeknight. She comes out, I hand her first tacked up horse, she rides it, I take that one, hand her next tacked up horse, she rides it, there is chatting interspersed, she goes home. Once a month clinician comes to my place, she has a lesson on each. Once a month or so, we go to show. I bring horses, she meets me at shows, cram four tests in, two on each horse, we chat, have a snack, she goes home and I go home. It's lovely. We are having fun, horses are successful, doing it on an absolute shoestring budget. Perfection!

Have you talked to Gry? She can teach a lesson. A couple of years ago I sent a client of mine with a laid up eventer to Gry to get some showjumping skills, she was able to get some lessons on some decent horses.

https://www.windfallfarminc.com/what-we-do

Bip · Postby **Bip** » Sun Aug 25, 2019 8:31 pm

Xan, you really should move out here. Yes, you and your horses will all get Lyme, but your horse life will be a zillion times more satisfying.

Oh! On that topic, I think my theory of needing three horses to have one sound one was right. Except I have TWO sound ones. We finally had a breakthrough with the fancy one, and she is going amazing. We won BN at a schooling HT a few weeks ago, her first event and my first BN in 9 years! And the 4 year old OTTB is doing great and I’m torn because I don’t have time for two (not to mention the expense), but I’m afraid to let him go because he’s obviously what is keeping my other horse sound, lol

scruffy the cat · Postby **scruffy the cat** » Sun Aug 25, 2019 9:03 pm

You had to say it out loud, BIP. Playing with fire, there!

Bip · Postby **Bip** » Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:28 am

scruffy the cat wrote:You had to say it out loud, BIP. Playing with fire, there!

I realized it as soon as I hit post

Postby **Chancellor** » Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:44 pm

Bip wrote:
scruffy the cat wrote:You had to say it out loud, BIP. Playing with fire, there!

I realized it as soon as I hit post

I hope you knocked on wood, threw salt over your shoulder etc.

Bip · Postby **Bip** » Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:37 pm

I’m doomed anyway, I entered a recognized event for weekend after next.

musical comedy · Postby **musical comedy** » Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:49 pm

Bip wrote:I’m doomed anyway, I entered a recognized event for weekend after next.

Hey, BN schooling event is not going to be any different at the Recognized event except maybe more or better competitors. I'm glad to hear both your horses are back in shape and I envy you going to an event. <sigh> Ain't nothing better than going through those finish flags, even if you were at the bottom of the dressage.

Moutaineer · Postby **Moutaineer** » Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:53 pm

Eek, Bip! I hope the gods were looking the other way!

Good luck and have fabulous fun, though!

scruffy the cat · Postby **scruffy the cat** » Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:24 am

BIP's not going to be at the bottom of dressage. She's got a SWEET horse. I hope I'm your ring steward so I can cheer you on in your warmup.

musical comedy · Postby **musical comedy** » Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:32 am

scruffy the cat wrote:BIP's not going to be at the bottom of dressage.

I wasn't insinuating that. I was thinking of myself.

StraightForward · Postby **StraightForward** » Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:15 pm

Xanthoria wrote:PPS got the price list: $1500 for training and 2 lessons/week. Add $175/lesson for more lessons. Add $150 a month for barn supplies. Just want school horse lessons? $1190/month, going up to $1800/month after 3 months so you can ride just the one horse, and $600/week show lease fee on top if you show: $2400/month on average... for 2 lessons a week... that's $300/30 min lesson...

NEXT!

$150 for "barn supplies?" What does that entail?

I'm so grateful for my barn(s) and Idaho prices. Ouch.

I hope the part-lease lead pans out for you!

Bip, I'm a little scared of having the same problem. Suddenly I'm going to have two going, and if I get rid of one, the other will instantly go lame. I know it. Glad to hear yours are doing well now though!

Xanthoria · Postby **Xanthoria** » Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:38 pm

Bip, you go! I'm only extremely jealous! :lol:

Where do you live anyway?

I tried out the lease horse and she's a greenish mare who seems to be a lot of fun. Going to ride her again this afternoon, so then I'll be discussing how much I have to pay the owners to train their green horse (I know - beggars can't be choosers!)

StraightForward the "barn supplies" are listed as ShowSheen, Vetrolin and fly spray and other maintenance supplies. Impressive that they get it, and it goes up to $175 if you board a horse there!

Quelah I wish I was closer; Gry is 1.5 hours away too, so what with HOPEFULLY starting a new job soon, I can't do it.

StraightForward · Postby **StraightForward** » Wed Aug 28, 2019 4:03 am

Xanthoria wrote:StraightForward the "barn supplies" are listed as ShowSheen, Vetrolin and fly spray and other maintenance supplies. Impressive that they get it, and it goes up to $175 if you board a horse there!

$1800/year for ShowSheen, WTF. I might spend $150 a year on that type of stuff - for three horses. But I'm low class and buy stuff on clearance and use coupons so :lol:

Xanthoria · Postby **Xanthoria** » Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:36 pm

It is indeed ridiculous! You’d be drowning in showsheen! :lol:

I’m sure the money goes elsewhere...

Moutaineer · Postby **Moutaineer** » Wed Aug 28, 2019 5:14 pm

They are slippery customers, to be sure...

heddylamar · Postby **heddylamar** » Wed Aug 28, 2019 5:22 pm

I hope the provided tack comes with a breast collar and crupper :shock:

Hot4Spots · Postby **Hot4Spots** » Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:20 pm

Interesting. Well, because dressage schoolmasters are usually only available on lease, and since my guy is semi-retired, for a while I tried some H/J lessons at a (HUGE) local barn where they had an Arabian Trainer, an H/J trainer, a couple of dressage trainers (again, clients and/or lessees only) and just general boarders. I filled out an on-line application, showed up for first lesson, no trainer. She showed up about 30 minutes later with many apologies. Then, apparently, I was supposed to have figured out from the white board (no one else around) that I was to get out, groom and saddle the horse designated for me. I have no problem with that, but I initially stood around waiting for the trainer, since I'd been given no heads up about it. Once I was on board (huge older WB), I was given a flat lesson. Sort of Hunt Seat Dressage. After a few minutes, I realized she was testing out whether what I had said in my online application was accurate. After commenting that I was one of the few she'd seen get the WB actually moving on the flat (as opposed to when he saw fence in front of him, I assume) I was told that "next time" I could jump. The lessons were $125 for small group lesson, or $100 if you signed up for a month's worth at a time. I hung in their and had some fun for a while - always on that same horse. I think because he was big and most of the other group were kids or young adults and he probably carted them regularly. This wasn't a BNT, but she had a lot of clients and they showed a lot locally. I gave it up after a couple of months because of the place where I boarded closing, my additional expenses in getting to the temporary boarding facility, and now that I have my horse back closer to home, dunno, just lost interest, I guess.

Tuddy · Postby **Tuddy** » Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:15 pm

Hot4Spots wrote:The lessons were $125 for small group lesson, or $100 if you signed up for a month's worth at a time.

How long are your lessons? Where I ride, I pay $60 (cdn) for a small group lesson - 3 people max. We catch our own horses, saddle and warm up. Trainer comes out, we ride, cool out, unsaddle and put horses away.

Our rides are about 1-1.5 hrs as we all take turns doing the exercises the trainer wants us to do. Sometimes are rides are shorter as we always end on a good note, or when we have reached max mental/physical capacity - horse or rider. My trainer might not be BN, but she is well respected.

Last night I rode with my trainer, and I still paid the same rate. The rate goes down to $50 if you use your own horse.

(Maybe I should shut my mouth and consider myself lucky...)

Postby **Chancellor** » Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:11 pm

Xanthoria wrote:Bip, you go! I'm only extremely jealous! Where do you live anyway?

.

The Northeast Xan. Move out here! No wildfires, no real earthquakes.

Abby Kogler · Postby **Abby Kogler** » Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:32 pm

Chancellor wrote:
Xanthoria wrote:Bip, you go! I'm only extremely jealous! Where do you live anyway?

.

The Northeast Xan. Move out here! No wildfires, no real earthquakes.

But...but....snooooooooowwwwww. IIIIcccceeeee..... Bugggggggssssssss!

>;;-> Nope nope nope nope.

Xanthoria · Postby **Xanthoria** » Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:36 pm

yeah no sorry - that is not the weather I can handle :lol:

Nor can I handle Lyme!

"Yes, you and your horses will all get Lyme, but your horse life will be a zillion times more satisfying."

Satisfying tho... my horse life is not satisfying

I DID manage to make a commitment to ride the very cute Irish sporthorse mare I tried 3 days a week for a month. So, I have a (free) lease. That'll get me through for now!

StraightForward · Postby **StraightForward** » Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:59 pm

Yay for a free lease! That sounds like a mutually beneficial situation.

Xanthoria · Postby **Xanthoria** » Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:37 pm

Yes! And she's a little pocket rocket, plus the owners are excited to get some training on her. Win win!

heddylamar · Postby **heddylamar** » Fri Aug 30, 2019 12:28 am

Chancellor wrote:
Xanthoria wrote:Bip, you go! I'm only extremely jealous! Where do you live anyway?

.

The Northeast Xan. Move out here! No wildfires, no real earthquakes.

Plus mud season, and bug season. The snow is the only positive

heddylamar · Postby **heddylamar** » Fri Aug 30, 2019 12:29 am

Xanthoria wrote:Yes! And she's a little pocket rocket, plus the owners are excited to get some training on her. Win win!

Great find!! Have fun!

Bip · Postby **Bip** » Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:22 am

heddylamar wrote:
Chancellor wrote:
Xanthoria wrote:Bip, you go! I'm only extremely jealous! Where do you live anyway?

.

The Northeast Xan. Move out here! No wildfires, no real earthquakes.

Plus mud season, and bug season. The snow is the only positive

Lol I moved here from CA when I was 27 and I still remember the first time someone told me about mid season and bug season. I was like, “Say what now?” And they just found a eee positive mosquito in my town, which is not great.

But there are riding trails all through my town and some of the neighboring towns, and you could event every weekend all summer long within 4 hrs of here.

heddylamar · Postby **heddylamar** » Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:37 am

Bip wrote:
heddylamar wrote:
Chancellor wrote:
The Northeast Xan. Move out here! No wildfires, no real earthquakes.

Plus mud season, and bug season. The snow is the only positive

Lol I moved here from CA when I was 27 and I still remember the first time someone told me about mid season and bug season. I was like, “Say what now?” And they just found a eee positive mosquito in my town, which is not great.

But there are riding trails all through my town and some of the neighboring towns, and you could event every weekend all summer long within 4 hrs of here.

There are definitely positives. But the temperature difference in early May from DC to Manchester :shock:

I was diving into Mom's closet for sweatshirts! And the frost heaves on the road :shock:

I tried to convince my husband to relocate while he was still working for EMC. They used to have a lab NW of Boston that kept trying to recruit him, and I would have had lots of snow and eventing

(Unfortunately he knows there's lots of eventing here ...)

Kyra's Mom · Postby **Kyra's Mom** » Sat Aug 31, 2019 5:18 am

Have fun with the little pocket rocket. Glad you found a situation that worked for you...yeah for being on a horse.

Susan

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