Barisone Trial

[Tarlo Farm]

Anybody else watching it occasionally?

[Abby Kogler]

Watching every day! Its intense and crazy!

[Srhorselady]

It’s totally crazy. They both have some major mental health issues. Hers definitely played into his with a totally tragic unnecessary result. Unfortunately also a bad look for our sport playing on a national (maybe international) platform.

[Chisamba]

I only hear second hand. Like I heard his defense was self defense from being driven to momentary insanity. I'm not describing it well but you can fill me in

[Kyras_Mom]

I am not watching the streams of the actual trial...just trying to wade through the COH thread. Now why any of it is still in the Dressage forum is beyond me. Seems like all along, all of it should have been in Current Events. COVID certainly didn't help (with the compilation of tens of thousands of comments/speculation).

It will be interesting and I am awaiting the verdict.

Susan

[Chisamba]

It looks like there is a lynch Mob mentality on TOB that I cannot like,( even if the victim is a loose cannon) so I long ago abandoned reading there, and yes, it's definitely more about current events than dressage, I agree.

[Chancellor]

I am listening while I work. This whole story is just amazing. I mean, if I didn't know it happened in real life, I wouldn't have believed it!
Lauren Kanarak is a serious loose cannon.

Reading the COTH thread, I cannot imagine how the jurors are keeping track of all the comments etc. There are inconsistencies everywhere.

[demi]

Ive been watching or listening a couple hours a day since it started. It’s fascinating from several aspects. I read very little of the commentary on TOB before the trail started, but after it started, I have been reading a couple or select posters who’ve been explaining criminal trial law. I have never watched real trials and am not interested in the tv shows on law and crime, etc, with the exception of watching a few episodes of Bull. This trial of course is different because the defendant is famous in our dressage world. I sincerely hope that Micheal Barisone gets off completely.

[Tarlo Farm]

It's pretty wild. Supposedly "48 Hours" is taping. All the "bombshells" LK promised seem to be coming for the defense testimony. What horrible, horrible people she and her BF are.

[Tanga]

I started watching the trial and it's stunning. Those two contradicted each other every which way. It's sure looking like those two attacked MB in some way after harassing and setting him up in every which way (including illegal recordings) and she ended up getting shot in the "7 minute" fight. The witnesses for the defense are so good in showing what it was like, and the pyschiatrists were so good.

I was not sure before this, but now I am 100% sure he was pushed over the edge, and if I were the prosecutor, I would be looking into going after LK and RG for harassment and assault.

Having been the victim of a sociopath, not this involved and in depth, in the horse world, my heart is breaking for MB.

[Chisamba]

I do not support violence art attempted murder as a solution to problems, even very real problems. It is also my opinion the self defense is response to a physical attack. Surely MB had the ability to bring every legal pressure available to his aid. Even against sociopaths and manipulative people. So I ask, did he hire a lawyer,? security? Seek counsel. Did he go anything like chain gates, lock stalls, limit access? I didn't listen to the trail so I do not know these things.

If a person did not serve legal eviction notice, but bought a gun, and everyone wants him to get off. That's just bizarre

[Chisamba]

And, if he went crazy and helieved they were dangerous what is too so that from happening again?

[Tanga]

Chisamba, are you watching the trial? I do not think MB attempted to murder anyone. It's looking like LK harassed, bugged, taped, cheated, lied, and everything else MB into a state I would have never thought possible in fear for his life and everything else. He did bring legal pressure, and in fact his lawyer testified that he talked to LK father about doing anything they could to get her off, including moving all of her horses to another similar trainer a few minutes away. He DID hire a lawyer, security, sought counsel, and everything else. I'm not sure what you mean about chains, lock stalls, etc. He ended up moving out of his own place to be safer (I don't remember all details.)

I didn't watch everything, but it was stunning to listen to witnesses, like the woman who had her daughter's horse there and moved because it went from a wonderful to a scary place because of LK and RG. The guy repairing the house (which RG was supposed to do) said the same thing, and things about how LK was dressed all in black sneaking around in the bushes. They put listening devices all over the property including in private areas and multiple people reported their private conversations were put on social media by LK.

You need to watch the trial. Every answer is in there. Just go to Youtube and search Barisone. You can see the contradictions and snideness and LK and RG and the stunning testimony of people who support MB and have facts.

What is to keep it from happening again? Um. Well, I'm guessing the poor people who LK is with now will have to learn from this and figure out how to stop it because she is starting the same thing.

Watch and then tell me what you think. The psychiatrists are stunningly convincing, esp. after all of the people in his barn who watched this and all of the people who have known him over the years.

[Chisamba]

How does anyone have time to listen to the trial. I read that his lawyer said they served eviction notice but did not do a real eviction because it was only intended to scare her off.

If you serve a legal eviction you can then lock stall doors, chain field gates, tack rooms doors etc to exclude access. Once people are legally excluded and you call the police when they try to gain access and call police can actually do something.

He had a lawyer but chose not to do the legal thing. His lawyer testified that they did not legally evict they tried to scare her off with the threat of legal action. Why? Why call to parents call police but refuse to actually evict. Right. Tell me I got it wrong. Did the lord get it wrong and lawyer not say that the only served notice to scare her is, they did not go ahead with the eviction process. If I am wrong and you can explain why I might have a different opinion.

No I am not watching it. I don't have time in simply reading excerpts on the over night shift.

500 people can take the stand to say she is crazy and mean and horrible. That not the point. The point is take care of it legally, don't go get a gun and try to shoot them.

There are some you YouTube parts of the trial available.

I knew I should not bother to share my opinion. Are you all going to unleash the moral outrage and internet bully troop on me now?

Do you even know the person you are all so voraciously defending? Have you seen him at a show? Taken a lesson?

Listen, I agree that the internet persona of the"victim" that I saw had the hallmark of somewhat unhinged, unreliable person that would be really hell to have on your place of business. I also know from experience that extricating yourself from a manipulative sociopath is complicated and not without cost but absolutely the most important nt thing is to take actual decisive legal action. The police can only act if you have the right legal crowbar for them to use.


And now I will go off and not bother myself with any of it. Including commenting here

[Tanga]

If you're not going to find the details of the case or watch it, I don't know what to say. Like I said, the WHOLE trial is on Youtube--search Barisone. You can look at what you want.

Why are you talking about moral outrage and bullying???? From WHO? Do you know know any of these people?? Why are you so "voraciously" deciding you know what happened?

Apparently I am the only one not "afraid" to reply to your comments. From watching a lot of it on Youtube (in my own time) I am betting he will be given time served at most from what I have seen. If I hadn't seen all of this testimony that I have, which isn't even close to all of it, I would, too, wonder, how that's possible. Now it seems very possible and realistic. It sure looks like these well known sociopaths manipulated and abused MB and everyone there, he did everything in his power to get rid of them with a lot of powerful help, tried to ask them one more time to leave while he was afraid for his life, and they both jumped him and they struggled for 7 minutes and she got shot. Based on what I've seen, I think they should charge LK and RG.

I know you are not reading, which is fine, but just leaving it here so others can see.

[blob]

LK is certainly a difficult character and isn't without fault in this whole debacle. However, I have a hard time feeling any sympathy for MB--picking up a gun is picking up a gun. And unless you're truly afraid someone is going to physically assault you and you have no way to defend yourself without a weapon, you are guilty for firing a gun. It's absolutely a messy trial. But I really do think he deserves a guilty verdict and appropriate punishment.

[Tanga]

Blob--Yeah, the trial answered all of those questions. He was truly afraid and they gave him reasons to be. The whole gun thing is complicated, but I am pretty sure he felt if he tried to talk to them without it, they would attack/kill him. I think that's what happened. I am thinking the jury will find not guilty.

I listened to some of the talk today where the judge and lawyers were going over details, and one of the things the judge asked was if the defense wanted to leave the option of the charge aggravated assault on the table, and they said no. He has already served the time that would be for aggravated assault, I believe.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

I'm watching it. It's crazy. I haven't watched so I will refrain from commenting too much. It is a very sad situation all around.

[blob]

Tanga--i haven't watched all of the trial. But I've watched enough that I don't truly believe his self defense excuse holds up.

[Tanga]

It is crazy every which way. And it is so sad. Whatever happens, MB's life is ruined .

Blob--MB never pleaded self defense. He doesn't remember anything. He's pleading something like temporary insanity. Just from what I watched, (and very little of LK and RK because they were so aggravating and contradicted themselves, each other, and everyone else) as a juror, I would conclude the only two "witnesses" couldn't even get their stories straight even though they have been together for the two years since, and their stories don't make sense, contradicting even what they say. As a juror, the only thing that would make sense is he came to try to talk them into leaving once again, but carried a gun because he was afraid they would kill/hurt him, they attacked him and were on the ground for 7 minutes fighting, and the gun went off.

I think there is plenty there for reasonable doubt, which is "all" that is needed.

If the police had done their jobs it would have helped. They didn't test anyone for gun residue, and there were a bunch of other issues that seem standard to me.

We'll see what the summations are on Monday. I know the defense lawyer is not allowed to say "self defense," so it seems he's just putting out the information and hoping the focus on insanity does it.

[Chancellor]

In my mind, he brought the gun with him for protection from her and their dog.

Based on the discussion on Friday, the judge feels there is sufficient evidence to charge the jury. The defense moved to have all the charges thrown out.
There are some damning evidence. For instance, saying "I had a good life" several times by Barisone.

The whole thing is awful. He did try to get the police involved several times and they refused to help. That is truly sad.
And Lauren and her boyfriend are horrible horrible people!

[blob]

Yes, but that is my point. If you bring a gun claiming you need it because you are afraid/need protection and then you FIRE that gun then it better be in self defense or you're guilty of shooting someone without just cause.

[Tanga]

Blob, I think that is 100% what the defense is showing. Listen to the closing arguments. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4MBxOAA9As

[demi]

The COTH published a good review of the closing arguments, with a lot of quotes from the prosecuting attorney and the defense attorney. If one doesn’t have the time or inclination to watch the actual trial, just read the review.

https://www.chronofhorse.com/article/cl ... 8TQPCTdIkk

I dont know any of the parties involved, but simply from watching the trial, I will be very frustrated with our judicial/legal system if the prosecution wins. I’ve been frustrated just watching. This is a crazy case for sure, but for me, the bottom line (one which the judge and the prosecution have gone far out of their way to minimize) is that the two eye witnesses are absolutely NOT credible. And the police department’s bungling of the whole thing opens the possibility that maybe Barisone didnt even do the shooting.

[Tanga]

Thanks, demi--I'm watching the closing and am really annoyed with the prosecution's closing. He keeps lying about really basic things. He said they didn't do forensics on the gun, clothes, etc. because it poured rain about an hour after it happened. But, but, but, the people involved and their clothes were sitting outside for an hour after? No one did fingerprints on the gun? Because they left it in the rain? He repeated that she was never asked to leave, even though MB's lawyer sent a letter (which is I guess what is required before you start eviction notices) and spent a long time on the phone with her father trying to help get her out of there, even finding another similar level training facility within minutes. He glossed over the fact that LK didn't see him drive up even though she was sitting on the porch? So much.

I agree. I know no one. I feel the same way. And it takes one person to have reasonable doubt that this happened the way the prosecutor says it. I'm thinking it's going to be more than one, if not all.

[Chancellor]

I truly hope the jury can see all of the inconsistencies in Kanareks story. I feel very bad for Michael Barisone. Is he completely without fault? No. But I don't think he is guilty of attempted murder. But, then again, I am privy to the collective memories of COTH and having seen some of Kanarek's shenanigans on COTH. I hope the jury can see it.
Frankly, I am not completely convinced he definitively shot the gun. I can easily see that there may have been a fight for the gun and it went off.

[Ponichiwa]

LK is certainly a difficult character and isn't without fault in this whole debacle. However, I have a hard time feeling any sympathy for MB--picking up a gun is picking up a gun. And unless you're truly afraid someone is going to physically assault you and you have no way to defend yourself without a weapon, you are guilty for firing a gun. It's absolutely a messy trial. But I really do think he deserves a guilty verdict and appropriate punishment.

Agree, and if nothing else this trial has provided significant evidence for motive for attempted murder.

[Kyras_Mom]

NOT GUILTY by reason of insanity...attempted murder of LK
NOT GUILTY by reason of insanity...gun charge related to LK
NOT GUILTY attempted murder and gun charge of Rob Goodwin.

What a long 2 1/2 years. I hope MB can get the help he needs now.

Susan

[Tanga]

Thank goddess. Poor man. His sobbing at the judgement is heartbreaking.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

I hope he gets the help he needs. I hope Lauren does too, but I actually don't think she will.

[Chisamba]

Apparently an unwelcome opinion.

[Tanga]

The lesson here, it's OK to shoot someone so long as society hates them. That's what all those decades of antisemitism and racism taught us and the only thing that has changed is society's perception of whom it is ok to hate.

You need to stop. You didn't watch the trial and don't know what happened. That's like telling a woman who has been mentally harassed and abused by a man, gets a gun because she is afraid, who then gets assaulted by him that it's murder or attempted murder because she was beaten so badly she can't remember. ZERO about this says that it's about it's OK to hurt someone who is a jerk or something you don't like. It's about evidence and lack of evidence.

[Tanga]

Then don't stop and show who you are.

Your opinion that he used a gun to "settle a dispute" doesn't seem valid, and is certainly no fact. He more likely had a gun because they were sociopaths and threatening him, so had it with him when he tried one last time to get them to leave, or thought they had left after his lawyer worked out a whole way out for her and RG with her father ten minutes down the road, and was checking. He was found NG against RG, and no by reason of insanity does not "prove" innocence, but it doesn't prove guilt, either. Gee, if only RG hadn't turned off, or erased the video right before this happened. Then we would know for sure. Go ahead a explain the 7 minutes of fighting before/after/during she was shot/running up to get RG/RG was there while they were on the phone with their lawyer, she was on her phone, then his phone, and then the police showed up a minute later, and why there was no forensic evidence run on anything because it "rained hard an hour later" even though they were all gone by then and their clothes/gun, etc. could have been tested.

It's 100% like an abused woman. Where did I say a woman who had economic or legal dependence? A woman who bought her own house and lived there and was not going to pack up and leave it to him. He was supposed to just pack up his whole farm and leave those two there?? So you would just leave your home? But you agree his mental condition is not good, but he should have packed up and left. Just. Wow.

Where is your statement that LK and RG should have just packed up and left? Esp. since it was arranged for them through MB's lawyer and her daddy.

I think most of us hope he can get the help he needs and gets some semblance of a life back. He seems to have a lot of support. And I think most/all of us would never want to be stuck in a situation with people like that. I was, not nearly as bad of course, but it was horrendous. People who aren't sociopaths don't know how to deal with sociopaths well except usually by very sad experience.

[Chisamba]

I'll reveal myself. I work every day with people with behavioral disorders. Perhaps for this reason more than average discussion of the many many time where people who have mental disabilities have not received fair treatment comes to my attention. About 1 in every four adults in America have a clinical mental disorder, so if you have ment eight people at the barn probably two of them are affected. Many of these are societally acceptable, things like anxiety, depression and mild forms of OCD. Unfortunately some of these are extremely hard to deal with. NDO, antisocial personality disorder, bipolar, are amoung these and inevitable if you are in the horse business for any period of time you will have to deal with one.

Many people with these disorders self medicate with drugs but rarely use the right medicines. I am not a psychologist and I am. Obviously not giving a professional opinion but clearly the pair that landed in MB's barn have all the earmarks of a hard to deal with behavioral disorder. You cannot follow them down the rabbit hole. You can use many and every legal action to remove them. The police can't or won't evict so eone unless you have acquired the full legal eviction.

Basically you have to understand that they are not logical, they are manipulative, and they do not function within normal reason.

On attempting to be more broad minded about that situation it seems likely that both parties were not functioning on a logical norm.

Of course the pair should have left. Of course they were negative. manipulative and extremely difficult and in the wrong. People with mental illness can do devastating damage. Adam Lanza being a horrible example. There is in my mind no doubt they were threatening and bullying and without conscience. That means you quickly and effectively bring full legal action and remove yourself if possible. And if you are in the horse business get good at it because it's going to happen more than. Once in your life time.

I have had a horses leg broken and the barn my horses were in burned. I have had to take insurance photos and attempt to. Move bodies that fell apart as they were moved. I have had to think about my horses trapped in their stalls as fire and smoke and flames overtook them. I still believe the law needs to protect me and take action.

I still believe the one in four American who suffer clinical psychogical disorders have a right to protection under the law.

Especially as MB was also suffering mental disorder, providing him with a gun was the wrong kind of support. Probably as illogical as Adam Lanza being given weapons. He certainly did not do himself any good. It is sad.

If that somehow makes me a pariah, so be it.

[heddylamar]

I find it absolutely terrifying that people use guns to settle arguments.

[Chancellor]

Chisamba, It is sad that Michael Barisone followed them down the rabbit hole...to use your phrase. I'm not sure he was able to prevent himself from doing so. And Lauren rather seemed like she was pushing him down it as well.

[Tanga]

I agree giving MB the gun was the wrong thing to do. I agree we have a huge issue with mental health. I think/hope this is a huge lesson for the horse world and things can be improved.

The decision by the jury was 100% right, thankfully. If you have facts to argue, go for it and just say it. Don't expect me not to respond back with facts and then come back looking when you delete statements. Saying you're going to be picked on, disparaged, or anything else is just deflection.

[blob]

I find it absolutely terrifying that people use guns to settle arguments.

Agree. And I don't think the fact that LK was doing something wrong makes this ok. I'm surprised and disappointed by the verdict.

[Chancellor]

Blob, did you watch the trial? Did you see Michael Barisone sitting at the defendant's table? He looks like a broken man.
Does that excuse him from shooting someone? No. He is going to spend time in a psychiatric facility and he looks like he needs to.
He looks like a disaster!

[PaulaO]

I am happy with the verdict. My heart goes out to Michael and his friends and family. He looks like a broken man. I pray he is able to get back to a “normal” life and I hope Lauren and her entourage have their worst lives ever. She is an effing psychopath and yes, I know what that means.

[blob]

Blob, did you watch the trial? Did you see Michael Barisone sitting at the defendant's table? He looks like a broken man.
Does that excuse him from shooting someone? No. He is going to spend time in a psychiatric facility and he looks like he needs to.
He looks like a disaster!

I did see a decent amount of the trial, but not every minute of it. And yes, he did look like he was in a bad place, but that doesn't make him not guilty and does not change my opinion of how the verdict should have gone.

[Kyras_Mom]

There is no question LK was shot. In listening to the testimony, I am still questioning HOW she got shot. Yes, gun possession and the resulting violence is very bad but between LK's, RG's and ED's (ear witness) divergent stories, Barisone's amnesia and the horrible police work I still don't know what happened and we probably never will.

I hope MB can recover but damned, he looks totally broken.

[demi]

Yes, Susan, I also question HOW he got shot. I certainly hate violence, and do not condone the use of firearms as a solution to controversy, but there are too many unanswered questions to just believe the testimony of the only two eyewitnesses who are known liars. Not only are the witnesses despicable liars, but they are very cleverly devious. It is more than believable that they plotted the whole thing….

[Abby Kogler]

I am THRILLED at the verdict.

This case had nothing to do with 'shooting to settle an argumernt' or 'Violence is Not the Answer', or victim shaming. At all. It has to do with shoddy/shitty police work, two very unreliable aka LYING witnesses, endless CRAZY harassment, death threats, weaponizing SS, weappozing the legal system...There is NO evidence that Michael Barisone took the gun with intent to kill or even shoot it. If some of you think so you have not been follwing the actual facts of the case. He had already been attacked before. He didnt even know there were at the house, The jury did their due diligence and I cried with relief at the verdict.

Now lets see if SS bans Miss Lauren. They certainly should. SS is not to be weaponized.

If I had been on the jury I would have voted not guilty all the way around.

[KathyK]

I followed the trial closely, and have witnessed Ms. Kanarek's unhinged rants and threats made over several years on various SM platforms. I was relieved at the verdict; however, because there is not one shred of evidence to prove it, I have serious doubts as to whether Mr. Barisone fired a gun that day.

Stay tuned, my friends. The civil trial is going to be very interesting.