Alligators and Florida and tourism, bad mix

[Alex]

Fellow BBers, I went to Disneyworld in Orlando over 15 years ago w/my mother and a sister and her two young daughters, ages 4 and 7. We arrived in the early afternoon and while it was still roasting hot. There were a few lakes either side of the hotel (can't remember which one it was) and there were boats and docks so it was obvious they offered water sports like wake boarding and water skiing and such. My mother wanted me to take my two nieces down to the water but I said I'd better scout the lake out first for alligators. Mo laughed at the whole idea because the whole place looked so groomed and she couldn't believe an alligator would choose to live there.

Sure enough, I make it only a short way around the lake before I spotted a very large alligator sitting just off the shoreline in plantain grass. I came back and told my mother it wasn't safe for the girls to go anywhere near the water's edge without an adult in tow. She couldn't believe it when I told her the size of the alligator I'd seen so I took her out to see it. We then came back to the front desk and I said to the concierge, "You've got about a 10- or 12-foot alligator out in your lake." The front desk folks scoffed at me and said they didn't have alligators. Later that night, I looked out only to see gator removal people spotting the gators w/a spotlight. Guess they didn't expect their guests to be savvy about what's done as far as alligator containment measures. Be careful if you visit Florida.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/16/us/airboa ... index.html

[Chisamba]

I loved in Florida for two years. My son was born there, and we left when he was close to two. I had digs too. I still have dogs, but different ones due to time. As soon as I got there I did a study, not heresay, about alligators and water. They walk. They can cross land, they look for water territories that are under inhabited. There are possibly alligators in every water in Florida that is not salty.

If you visit a state you should familiarize yourself with the dangers.

Texas, rattlers
New Jersey, black bears,
Florida, Gators etc etc etc.

They have a natural right to be there.

[Chisamba]

That said it is incredibly sad for the family and that boy that was taken by the gator.

It is however, infuriating to me that they killed for Gators because of it.

[kande50]

It is however, infuriating to me that they killed for Gators because of it.

Their PR people likely told them that they needed to capture and kill some gators to satisfy the eye for an eye brigade.

[bits]

There are alligators in Texas to.

http://www.star-telegram.com/news/local ... 74372.html

[Racetrackreject]

Yeah, alligators are a much bigger issue than rattlesnakes for sure, at least in the areas I live. If you head towards South or West Texas, then you have a bigger issue with rattlesnakes.

I've seen an alligator do a crocodile snatch and grab to get a dog off of the boat dock. It's amazing how fast those things can launch out of the water and the amount of air they get going up. I once had to fight one off with an oar because it kept trying to climb in the boat with me.

I understand that in some places, tourism is a necessary evil, due to the revenue it brings in, but holy geez are people ignorant about it. I believe Yellowstone has now had 5 people this year get into the geysers. Only one was a child! The last guy that went in died, they couldn't even find his body after the geyser was through with him. That's not counting the multiple stupidity with dangerous animals incidents which are almost daily. I saw it there, I saw people in the backcountry that had no business being there. They should have just hung out a sign that said free bear lunch.

[WheresMyWhite]

In Yellowstone, death is common enough for a book

https://www.amazon.com/Death-Yellowstone-Accidents-Foolhardiness-National/dp/1570984506/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1466171577&sr=8-1&keywords=death+in+yellowstone

[Alex]

Yeah, it really is shocking the ignorance people display about the dangers posed by wild animals. It's strange these Florida resorts aren't honest about the dangers of alligators and the venomous snakes in the state. Maybe because they think being frank about the dangers will affect tourism...? Or maybe it's that they're really ignorant as well and are, in effect, just as ignorant as the tourists about the capabilities of these reptiles that look like they're incapable of doing anything but floating?

I'm just so glad I didn't simply shrug off the potential threat and I went and checked out the lakes before I let my sister's two girls start wandering around. My mother who was British was all gonzo about me taking the girls wake boarding because it was such a warm, sunny day in comparison to what they'd left behind in Massachusetts.

[Racetrackreject]

Yeah, it really is shocking the ignorance people display about the dangers posed by wild animals. It's strange these Florida resorts aren't honest about the dangers of alligators and the venomous snakes in the state. Maybe because they think being frank about the dangers will affect tourism...? Or maybe it's that they're really ignorant as well and are, in effect, just as ignorant as the tourists about the capabilities of these reptiles that look like they're incapable of doing anything but floating?

I wonder if they don't state it due to insurance issues, sort of like posting "Beware of dog" signs? By posting such signs, you admit that you had previous knowledge of the potential for bad things to happen, and are therefore liable.

[Tarlo Farm]

Gators can be soooo freaking fast!! Not for much of a distance, but quick enough to get you. They are just about the only animal that creeps me out. And I can't think of another one right now.

[Alex]

I agree, Tarlo, they're lightning quick. The really tough thing about dealing w/them is that if they do manage to grab you and get you horizontal, you're at their mercy unless you're a world class wrestler w/nerves of steel. This poor little boy... I'm just heartbroken for his family. They simply had no idea this could happen in such a civilized-looking environment. That is a big part of this, I'm afraid. That lagoon doesn't LOOK like numerous alligators could be roaming around or lurking beneath the surface.

I'm sorry but I do feel Disneyworld is at fault for not making sure that people understand the dangers of being close to the water. I was aware of the risks simply because I've always been a naturalist freak and read National Geographic and watched animal specials. But if I'd listened to my British mother who WAS FOOLED by how civilized the resort looked and let my nieces go around the lake on their own, we could very well have been the ones in this situation. It was clear to me I should scout the premises before I let my nieces go ANYWHERE near the water.

[Koolkat]

Gators can be soooo freaking fast!! Not for much of a distance, but quick enough to get you. They are just about the only animal that creeps me out. And I can't think of another one right now.

My husband's SIL is a paleontologist that specializes in dinosaur eggs/nesting. They spent one winter (a cold one!) in the Everglades crawling in to alligator nests in the name of research!

Something for you to dream about tonight.

[orono]

I agree Alex, having the 3 resorts with combed beach areas does not infer danger at the waters edge. I would also take the 'no swimming' signs to mean more about water quality and lack of lifeguarding, not that it would be dangerous to put a toe in or near the water.

[WheresMyWhite]

But doesn't 'no swimming' mean *no* swimming, regardless of why you think the sign is there???

[Suzon]

But doesn't 'no swimming' mean *no* swimming, regardless of why you think the sign is there???

Except he wasn't swimming. He was getting his feet wet in about 6 inches or so of water. If I were a parent watching my child on a pristine white beach at "the most magical place on earth," I wouldn't think letting my child get his feet wet would get him eaten.

[M&M]

I agree. I probably would have been putting my feet in the water.

[Chisamba]

Perhaps growing up in a relatively undeveloped country, with predators on land and in water, gives me a different perspective. Even in my own pond,. I cannot go into murky water without several self preservation techniques.

[Tarlo Farm]

My husband's SIL is a paleontologist that specializes in dinosaur eggs/nesting. They spent one winter (a cold one!) in the Everglades crawling in to alligator nests in the name of research!

Something for you to dream about tonight.

Right. Stuff of nightmares. Thanks.

[Alex]

That's not what those signs about "NO SWIMMING" mean to me, Where'sMyWhite. We are all quibbling though about what the wording should be on those signs. The fact is these are RESORTS and they don't want to be SCARING THEIR PATRONS by telling them the reality of alligator hunting technique.

I don't think anyone who's walking along the very edge of the water thinks they could be taken by an alligator. But the fact is, you could be taken if the alligator has a deep enough drop-off in which to hide from you and then surge out of the water using its tail as its thruster. You don't HAVE to be in the water at all. You just have to be NEAR the location of a stalking alligator that's in position to power itself out of the water w/a strong enough thrust from his tail to get him close enough to snag you.

The coverage of this incident is REALLY BOTHERING ME. News media shouldn't diminish the nature of this attack by claiming that there have been very few alligator attacks. They also shouldn't have Everglades guides saying "alligators are more afraid of you than you are of them" when the explanation for attacks is not that simple. There was just a man eaten alive when he went swimming at a marina where there were signs saying, "NO SWIMMING ALLIGATORS."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/v ... arina.html

[WheresMyWhite]

But at what point is some level of responsibility and common sense and *thinking* supposed to kick in?

Feels like society is relying more and more that someone else should take responsibility for everyone else's actions, no?

[kande50]

But at what point is some level of responsibility and common sense and *thinking* supposed to kick in?

Feels like society is relying more and more that someone else should take responsibility for everyone else's actions, no?

All they needed to do was put up signs at water's edge with a pic of an alligator, which would warn both those who knew something about alligators, and those who didn't. That way no one would think that "no swimming" meant that they weren't supposed to go swimming but wading along the edge was fine.

How can people be responsible about the choices they make if they're kept in the dark about the nature of the dangers?

[M&M]

I'm very much in favor of personal responsibility, but I don't think that sign was adequate. Common sense - these people were from very, very far inland. And, as Alex said, the child could have been just near the water, and the same thing could have happened.

Common sense and thinking, to me, means don't make it look like a beautiful beach, and just post "no swimming". As someone above said, that could simply mean there's no lifeguard on duty. This was a man-made lake. Are we all supposed to know that alligators are everywhere there''s water in Florida?

How much do you folks know about the dangers lurking in Massachusetts? Are you going to research all the dangers that might exist, if you come to a high end resort in my state? I'm sure some of you are. But not all of you are. And those that don't, are NOT, in my opinion, stupid, unthinking, or in favor of a Nanny state.

[kande50]

How much do you folks know about the dangers lurking in Massachusetts?.

There are dangers in Massachusetts?

I suppose someone who had never experienced winter could freeze to death easily enough if they went hiking and got lost, but it's not all that easy to get lost in MA. I'm trying to think of what dangers there are around here that someone coming in from say, the midwest, wouldn't have a clue about?

[Suzon]

Do you all know where rattlesnake country begins and ends in what states?

[Suzon]

Did you know mountain lions are spotted in San Francisco? How many San Franciscans know how to fend off a mountain lion?

[WheresMyWhite]

And maybe 'no swimming' wasn't sufficient but how many people would really be stopped by a sign with a picture of an alligator??? I'm thinking even if a 'stay out of the water' was added that many would be thinking that feet in 6" of water would be perfectly safe. I mean, after all, out of the water can't possibly mean I can't get my feet wet in 6" of water at shore line, does it?

[Alex]

Lots of San Franciscans know there are mountain lions that cruise through the area. But there aren't that many mountain lions that have established ranges right there. Trouble is, once a mountain lion has an established range, it hunts within that range and it depends on the prey in that range. If their normal prey run low, humans are just another mammal to them. I sent my fella off on a bonsai trip to Wyoming w/a friend and gave him my bear spray. He was hesitant to take it at first but I gently persuaded him by mentioning the grizzlies we'd seen and the mountain lion poop we'd seen on our last trip where there were 4 of us and no one was ever alone....

https://www.wildlife.ca.gov/Conservatio ... on/Attacks

[cb06]

What happen is tragic, heartbreaking.
I am not from Florida, and though I'm aware they have alligators, I wouldn't say I was 'fully' aware of the implication until a trip a few years ago. We went hiking one afternoon in a beautiful state park and wetland.
Displayed VERY prominently at the trail head by the parking lot was this sign...needless to say it got our attention.
..and yes we saw alligators, LOTS of them, parked like cars sunbathing on the banks of the canals that ran alongside just FEET from the trails....

prevent-mistaken-identity-alligator-sign-k-0455.png (94.36 KiB) Viewed 20907 times

[WheresMyWhite]

And even this should probably have "dusk" removed as the child at Disney went wading about 9:00pm.

It does sound like Disney, belatedly will be adding signs about alligators.

Last Friday about 8:00pm a child was attacked by a mountain lion about 10 miles from Aspen.

I think that today's isolation of people from the realities of nature does them no good more times than not.

[Hayburner]

Do I know there are gators in FL? YES

Do I know the extent of how many and where they are? NO

My best guess would be the Everglades

Would I in my wildest dreams think any would be on Disney resort property or in the parks just hanging around? NO

Did I think Disney was a safe place for kids, YES

Can Disney do anything to avoid another occurrence? And I'm thinking more than a sign! Get rid of the water, get rid of ALL the gators in a place that's supposed to be safe, fun and family friendly! Gators that are not contained in a zoo atmosphere!

This was tragic that another young child lost their life and possibly it could have been avoided.

As for signs, we have many foreigners that visit, what if they can't read English!

[zevida]

They can't get rid of the water, water is everywhere in Florida, and often necessary to have the canals to help with flooding. Even if they drained the man made lakes and filled those in, there are so many natural lakes and ponds, and the canals again, and if there is water, there will be gators. They will somehow find the water and travel to it. There should be signs to warn more clearly of the danger, if you are going to create an inviting beach that invites frolicking in the surf. And if it is true the guests in the $1000/night bungalows feed the gators, you need to tear those down because people are stupid.

This was a freak accident. Maybe could have been prevented. Very, very, very sad.

[kande50]

They can't get rid of the water, water is everywhere in Florida, and often necessary to have the canals to help with flooding.

I thought I saw video of them building fences, at least around the lagoon where the child was taken?

Don't know if they could do it, but if they're going to build lagoons maybe they should make them shallow enough so that the gators wouldn't want to live there? That way they could still have the water with the white sand beaches, while lowering the risk considerably?

[Hayburner]

If they don't inhabit salt water, why not salt the lagoons or water around areas that are highly populated? Ok, kind of sounds dumb after I typed it, but they need to do something to protect any resort area guests.

I now have no desire to visit FL - well, maybe to take a clinic at Lynn Palm's .

[WheresMyWhite]

Salting the water would certainly be bad for native plants and animals that are currently living in/near fresh or brackish water...

[Flight]

I didn't know there were alligators that freely around in Florida (I've never been). Don't they all live in the sewers after people flush them down the dunny?!!
Will keep it in mind if I ever go! An alligator sign would have been more appropriate, I would have thought.

I do know here in the north not to go swimming, because of the crocodiles and yes, I did see signs when I went on a big camping trip around northern Australia, but people still get eaten.

[Koolkat]

I do not mean to take away from this family's tragedy in any way, but is this feeding on some sort of primal fear? It's a rare occurrence. The family car and lack of proper restraint is much more likely to kill a child (or that child's parents, for that matter).

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati ... d/5204127/


Yes, Disney needs to have better signage. And pictures should work just fine for those that don't understand English. In addition, they can have an elf hanging around risky places to keep people safe.

[Chisamba]

They can't get rid of the water, water is everywhere in Florida, and often necessary to have the canals to help with flooding.

I thought I saw video of them building fences, at least around the lagoon where the child was taken?

Don't know if they could do it, but if they're going to build lagoons maybe they should make them shallow enough so that the gators wouldn't want to live there? That way they could still have the water with the white sand beaches, while lowering the risk considerably?

I take it you have not seen the video of the gator climbing over a fence?

[Chisamba]

They can't get rid of the water, water is everywhere in Florida, and often necessary to have the canals to help with flooding.

I thought I saw video of them building fences, at least around the lagoon where the child was taken?

Don't know if they could do it, but if they're going to build lagoons maybe they should make them shallow enough so that the gators wouldn't want to live there? That way they could still have the water with the white sand beaches, while lowering the risk considerably?

https://youtu.be/7Qp_bUYPrTg

[Flight]

Wow! They are more goanna like, with those arms and legs.

[kande50]

I take it you have not seen the video of the gator climbing over a fence?

I thought the fence was probably to keep the people out of the water, as that's likely the highest risk?

The fence may just be for PR, because isn't this just one lagoon of many? Or maybe they're going to fence all the man made ones?