Tell me about your roof...

[orono]

Our cedar shake roof is about 40 years old (3/4" split cedar), and we are looking to replace it. I don't think we can justify the $$ to install new shakes. Just wondering what roofing materials others have, and pros/cons.

[boots-aregard]

We just redid our roof. I presume (since you have shake now) you have adequate slope for other types of shingles.

Climate matters. I just redid my roof here in California, and I did light grey reflective asphalt shingles in order to reflect sunlight (and reduce heat build up and deterioration of the shingles). I was told by the various bidding contractors that thickness mattered and that thickness doesn't really matter (thanks, guys). Much was made about "architectural" shingles for the "look" but frankly, I'm in the urban part of town -- there isn't an approach to my house where anybody can get a good enough view of the roof that "architectural" shingles are needed. I also put up solar panels on the sunny face of the house, which obscures a large portion of the roof, and thus reduces heat gain that way.

Good underlayment is the important bit. For us, correct venting is important, too. We don't worry about wind lift much nor snow melt (and ice damming) at all. You might need to. They bid and installed new rain gutters and downspouts all around the house, and then had to come back and seal up beneath the gutters to my satisfaction, because This Old House isn't square and tight anymore, and I did not want critters in my attic! Be sure to check out light penetration both before and after, so you know how well sealed up it is.

I got 30 year shingles, though I've no idea what that really means. I was terrified to tear off 3 different roofs and replace it with only ONE roof. Figured the 3, even very aged, probably gave me better coverage overall than just one.

Wouldn't install shake if you paid me, but I've been thru fires, and it's drought-y and hot out here, so...

[Amado]

Not sure where you live, but we were told when we went to replace our cedar shake that they kind of cedar they can get now isn't as bug resistant as what used to get put on houses. (Whether that is true or not, I don't know). I would never put cedar shake on a roof now. Seen them in both wet (moss) and dry (fire ) climates, and I think they are a big mistake. We've replaced 3 roofs since then (last one because of a terrible hail storm!) - with asphalt shingles - there are quite a few color and style choices, and they can be really nice looking. Can't remember the brands - but consumer reports will have ratings - just get a good roofer, because if they don't do it right, it doesn't matter how good the shingles are!

[Chisamba]

I also like asphalt shingles. I actually do not really like the look of cedar shakes. Perhaps its just what i am accustomed to, but its most of what i have seen. My brother spent a lot of money to get slate because he was so particular about the look, and then did not have enough to finish his house...which seems ridiculous to.me.

In Africa we had tin (corrugated iron) roofing (and thatch.) Tin is very loud.

[kande50]

We have asphalt and my son's house has tin, and all our barns have tin. The tin is loud in the uninsulated barns, but not in the house because of the insulated attic. Tin is much faster to apply, lasts longer, and doesn't need to go to haz waste (or whatever they do with the tar shingles). I also like the look of tin better than asphalt shingles, but some don't.

Someone near us replaced their house and barn roofs with blue tin and I really like the way it looks.

Oh, and they make fake slate roof tiles now that look just like the real thing.

[WheresMyWhite]

As others have said, depends on where you live. I have tile

I would never install cedar.

Asphalt as noted is a good, solid, reasonable roofing material. It is fire resistant (nothing is fire "retardant"). It can be, if you get the correct kind, hail/impact resistant; if hail is an issue where you live, you might want to talk to your homeowner insurance company and see if there is a premium break for installing impact resistant.

boots-aregard said that she didn't tear off existing roofing material. Depending on where you live, you may need to get a building permit and you may need to do a tear off. A good roofer will know both of those for your area. A good roofer will be able to recommend tearing everything off even if not required. If a permit is required, it's not worth it to avoid the issue and not get one

Three layers of old roof topped by a new roof is a lot of weight load on the roof For maybe the last 15 or so years, I've only ever had one layer on my roof. If it is done properly, it keeps the elements out. Insulation and roof vents are what help regulate the temp in the attic

[Tarlo Farm]

I have steel (tin) also and swear by it. No ice dams, lifetime application, recyclable when someone else wants to do something else. If you live in snow country, you do need to be aware of what's below your roof, as snow-slide can wipe out railings, stairs, chimneys, etc.
Almost 40 years ago I worked on a building project for a condo development ten miles from the closest firetrucks. They used cedar shakes and we used to joke about how quickly the condos would burn down if they ever got sparks on the roofs. New owners replaced them ten years later.

[Canyon]

Our homeowner's insurance went down when we replaced cedar shakes with thirty-year asphalt shingles, thirty some years ago. So, they have lasted thirty years, but will need to be replaced in the next few years. DH is thinking metal roof this time. I read here or on COTH that some colors of metal fade, so that is worth investigating.

[texsuze]

When we lived in the megalopolis, we had asphalt shingles on our 2-story house. We also had cedar shakes on the two walls each end of the house, under the roof overhang. Kind of a style thing. We did have those shakes replaced while living there, but for roofing, I believe it was against code to replace existing wood shingles with wood again. Would never have cedar shingles for a roof.

Now that we are out in the country, we put a standing-seam metal roof on our house when we built in 2002. No snow weight to worry with, but we do have drought conditions and hail. Noise is not a problem, what with this home also being 2-story, plus a bigger-than-it-needed-to-be attic for noise absorption. Barn has a metal roof and we do all our household rainwater collection off that structure. There are various "gauges" of metal used on metal roofs. Metal roof makes for great rainwater collection, if needed.

[Tuffytown]

There is treated cedar now which has a longer lifespan and more fire resistance but it is still less of a lifespan of other materials and a lot longer than the 10 - 15 years that modern conventional cedar shakes or shingles would get.

Asphalt shingles are a good product if you can find one you like. The architectural versions have more layer build up to emulate the look of cedar but some of them go really over the top with too much texture and color shadowing so that they look snaggle toothed to me. The architectural versions have increasing lifespans as compared to basic 3-tab due to the thickness and multiple layers. The can range from 30-50 years while 3-tab is often 20-30 years. Metal roofs (which are no longer tin) come in different grades as well. Thickness, type of coating, colorfastness etc. They generally have a longer lifespan when you are looking at the thicker gauge with one of the better finishes and concealed fasteners. Agricultural metal roofs look similar but have surface mounted fastenrs (screws with neoprene washers) that will inevitably leak in 10 ish years so fine for farm use but not good for finished, insulated, heated space.

If you currently have cedar shingles you likely have skip sheathing (spaced boards) and the roof partially ventilated through the spaces in and around the skip sheating and shingles. If you go to a metal or composite roof then you will likely need to re-sheath the roof for a continuous smooth surface for application. There may be a way that roofers install composite over shingles but I would get clear direction on that from several sources. Going to a composite product and the membrane that goes below it will also alter the volume of available ventilation which is critical to preventing premature roofing failure and moisture build up in the attic. You shoud review the existing ventilation conditions in the roof and verify that proper ventilation will be provided for the new roofing material. Ridge vents with vents a the eaves is a good system but you need to make sure that there is indeed ventilation coming from the eaves as that system is dependent of convective action of the high vent pulling air from the low vent. A ridge vent with gable end vents will not product proper air flow.

[WheresMyWhite]

And FWIW, I've always liked the color of both new and aged copper but not the price tag to go with it

[Tuffytown]

There are metal roofing companies that make an aged copper color in their enamel products. Not quite the same but also not quite the same price.

[Suzon]

Cedar roofs are great in that they can be repaired piecemeal by just putting in new shingles where needed. But when they're finally toast, they're toast.

As others have said, asphalt shingles are a fine alternative, as is metal. Whatever you do, pay the extra money and have the cedar removed. A lot of times people try to save money by roofing over what's still there. First of all, it makes the finished product look lumpy a lot of the time; second, it reduces the life of the new roof and increases the chance of a poor installation; and third, it asks your attic framing to support more weight. So do the tear-off.

[boots-aregard]

boots-aregard said that she didn't tear off existing roofing material. Depending on where you live, you may need to get a building permit and you may need to do a tear off. A good roofer will know both of those for your area.

No, no, I did tear off. I was afraid to tear it all off, but you can't put a 4th roof on over 3 existings. In fact, the limit is supposedly 2. One new over one old, max. Since my underlayment was probably 100 years old, it would have been downright NUTS not to tear off.

A good roofer will be able to recommend tearing everything off even if not required. If a permit is required, it's not worth it to avoid the issue and not get one

Permits should be pulled if for no other reason than to give you a little leverage over the roofer if they rush the finish of the job.

[Moutaineer]

Good old forest green metal, but I live in a log cabin in snow and wildfire country, so can't really have anything else. A big chunk of mine is covered in solar panels.

If I could and I was re-roofing, I might look at some of the integrated solar options.

[WheresMyWhite]

I was terrified to tear off 3 different roofs and replace it with only ONE roof. Figured the 3, even very aged, probably gave me better coverage overall than just one.

b-a, sorry, it was this that prompted my comment...

Tuffytown, I love the copper look but not thinking it's really "southwest-y" looking (hence the tile).

At this point, about 1/3 of the tile is covered with PV cells, the current roof isn't going anywhere

[Sunshine2Me]

I love the metal roofs, and that's what my next will be. My fireman neighbor did mention to me that a metal roof is going to be more difficult to vent in the event of a fire, so that may be something to consider.

For those of you who put on a metal roof, what does it run cost-wise. I would say my house if average size - about 1600 square feet. I'm just looking for a ball park price.

[Tuffytown]

Labor costs vary so much by location that it is hard to say but for that size house, depending on actual roof pitch and complexity you are probably looking at 12k to 18k or even more if there are a lot of valleys or specialty items.

[boots-aregard]

I was terrified to tear off 3 different roofs and replace it with only ONE roof. Figured the 3, even very aged, probably gave me better coverage overall than just one.

b-a, sorry, it was this that prompted my comment...

Yeah, I wasn't clear. My bad.

[Sunshine2Me]

Labor costs vary so much by location that it is hard to say but for that size house, depending on actual roof pitch and complexity you are probably looking at 12k to 18k or even more if there are a lot of valleys or specialty items.

Yikes! That's a bit much, although they are supposed to be "lifetime" roofs, so I wouldn't be looking at replacing after I retire.

[kande50]

So do the tear-off.

The way it's done around here (western MA) is that a new layer of asphalt shingles can be added over one old layer before we tear both layers off and start over. It may not be an official building code, but just the way everyone does it, and may have something to do with the length of the nails that would be needed to nail through 3 layers?

[Tuffytown]

Building code used to be 3 layers max but changed, I think, in 2003. Now the IRC requires a tear off and new roof when the existing roof is wood, slate, clay, concrete shingles . Metal can be applied over these under certain application conditions. Asphalt can be applied over another layer under certain conditions. States have their own interpretations of the code due to specific weather conditions so that would impact the regulations as well.

[WheresMyWhite]

My personal opinion is that weight is also a factor in requiring or "suggesting" a tear off.

Roofing material itself can be heavy and you don't want to stress the trusses, esp in an older home.

[Suzon]

Building code used to be 3 layers max but changed, I think, in 2003. Now the IRC requires a tear off and new roof when the existing roof is wood, slate, clay, concrete shingles . Metal can be applied over these under certain application conditions. Asphalt can be applied over another layer under certain conditions. States have their own interpretations of the code due to specific weather conditions so that would impact the regulations as well.

One of the biggest issues with more layers is the weight you're adding to your roof framing. Roofing is heavy. A lot of older homes are under framed by modern standards. Roofs don't actually collapse very often, but they do sag and put pressure on the exterior walls and cause compression and shifting.

[Tuffytown]

Yes, although old lumber has much higher strength capacities than new lumber the member sizes that calculate now are much larger than what was allowed decades ago.

Along that line, even if you are doing a tear off, if the original roof was not designed to carry the load of of a heavier new material such as tile, slate, clay or concrete you might need to reinforce the structure as well.

Insurance companies also have their own regulations about layers. Even if the local code allows it your insurance company may decline to insure you.

[StraightForward]

My personal opinion is that weight is also a factor in requiring or "suggesting" a tear off.

Roofing material itself can be heavy and you don't want to stress the trusses, esp in an older home.

Yeah. Three layers is legal in Idaho, and that's what our house has now. There is a little bit of a sag in the wall above the picture window in the living room, which I suspect is from the weight of the roof. It probably has a decade left in it, but if we decide to stay in this house, I'm hoping to go with standing seam metal next time (after a tear-off and repairing any structural issues).

[WheresMyWhite]

3 layers

[Tarlo Farm]

Labor costs vary so much by location that it is hard to say but for that size house, depending on actual roof pitch and complexity you are probably looking at 12k to 18k or even more if there are a lot of valleys or specialty items.

My whole 60'X56' pole building was about that range. Roof included

[Tuffytown]

Was your pole building standing seam? Agricultural surface attached metal roofing is much less expensive than 50 year standing seam.

My 70x144 arena was quoted at 30 K which calcs out at $3 sf. My 1800 sf house was quoted at 13 k which is about $7.50 sf. Different materials, different prices.

[goldhorse]

One of the biggest issues with more layers is the weight you're adding to your roof framing. Roofing is heavy. A lot of older homes are under framed by modern standards. Roofs don't actually collapse very often, but they do sag and put pressure on the exterior walls and cause compression and shifting.

East Bay, Northern California here. After the Oakland Hills fire in 1992, building codes changed. Shake roofs were made illegal. I've seen them put on in the past few years so I don't know if they're now fire retardant or it was a special exemption for a historical building. Anyway, we converted from shake to asphalt shingles. We had to get an engineer involved to spec out the underlayment of plywood and the nailing pattern to cover our large living room. The weight of the asphalt shingles was much more than the old shake roof and the existing underlayment wasn't designed to handle the added weight. Also, the underlayment was designed to help the house sustain an earthquake. Of course, all of this required permits. We put on 20 year shingles and it's been about 18 trouble free years now. Knock on wood.

My brother lives in our old family house in San Diego. It has an old red tiled roof. It was supposed to last 50 years but my dad got another 30 years out of it. I love the look of it but one can't walk on it and it attracts roof rats.

[Saddlebum]

During my research this Spring for putting a new roof on my run-in shed, I found out the warranty on the shingles does not necessarily apply to the shingle itself. Most shingle roofs last 15-20 years 'period'.

I went with a metal roof and did it myself with a friend helping with the long 16' panels. The hardest part was the pro-salesman at the building stores. One just kept starring at me as if I were from outer space and I had to remind him to write things down for the estimate - geeze. At another box store, the pro placed the order for me and if the delivery man had not known me personally, it would have been left down at the road -AARGH! for me to carry up and I specifically mentioned it not making it up the driveway to the pro when ordering. He guaranteed it would and the delivery guy said it was curb side delivery on the signed contract but loaded it into my pu and then held the metal up himself as I drove it up the driveway.

AND THEN, only 1/4 of the order was delivered!!!! The guy messed up the order when he placed it. Of the 3 things delivered, only one was right. Hard to believe I know. I ended up buying the rest piece meal from another box store and did not get the edges one piece like I wanted but went with two.

I put in a french drain below the one eve edge to help with water run-off and prevent soil erosion.

Doing it myself was not hard, the hard part was getting the right parts for the eves and edges.

[boots-aregard]

Was your pole building standing seam? Agricultural surface attached metal roofing is much less expensive than 50 year standing seam.

My 70x144 arena was quoted at 30 K which calcs out at $3 sf. My 1800 sf house was quoted at 13 k which is about $7.50 sf. Different materials, different prices.

Slope makes a big difference, too. My house is a neoclassical, and while the slope does not look extreme to me, one roofing company would not even bid ("too steep") and I got two different sets of bids from other companies; the set who thought it was steep enough to require tying off workers, and the set from those who thought it was not that steep.

One would *think* that slope is relatively easy to measure!! But there were definitely two different sets of bids, and they differed by about 60%.

[Sunshine2Me]

This is my house. To me, the slope seems quite steep.

[boots-aregard]

This is my house (for roof slope comparison). Old roof on. New roof is lighter grey.

[kande50]

This is my house (for roof slope comparison). Old roof on. New roof is lighter grey.

Doesn't look steep in that pic, but I know that cameras can lie. Our roofs are all the same: 6:12 pitch, so the snow will slide off. The taller and narrower the building though, the shallower the roof pitch looks.

[Tuffytown]

Sunshines looks to be about 5/12 for the dormers and garage and 7-8/12 for the main house.

Boot looks to be about 5-6/12. Moderate but not steep in my opinion. Minimum is 3/12 for shingles of any type. Less than that and you need to be doing metal panels or waterproof membrane.

Here's mine which is 12/12 for the main roof and 6/12 for the dormers. One definitely must be tied off to work on the roof.

farm.jpg (57.38 KiB) Viewed 22703 times

[Sunshine2Me]

Tuffy, yours looks like a much steeper pitch than mine. Would mine be considered in the "normal" range?

[Tuffytown]

I would consider normal low range.

[Sunshine2Me]

I would consider normal low range.

Good to know! Thank you!

[Tarlo Farm]

Was your pole building standing seam? Agricultural surface attached metal roofing is much less expensive than 50 year standing seam.

My 70x144 arena was quoted at 30 K which calcs out at $3 sf. My 1800 sf house was quoted at 13 k which is about $7.50 sf. Different materials, different prices.

Slope makes a big difference, too. My house is a neoclassical, and while the slope does not look extreme to me, one roofing company would not even bid ("too steep") and I got two different sets of bids from other companies; the set who thought it was steep enough to require tying off workers, and the set from those who thought it was not that steep.

One would *think* that slope is relatively easy to measure!! But there were definitely two different sets of bids, and they differed by about 60%.

Good points. 6:12 pitch, but not standing seam. Tuffy, your place is gorgeous!

[Tuffytown]

Thanks, Want it?

[Tarlo Farm]

Ha ha, still trying to sell my 40 acre joint.

[orono]

We are getting more quotes today...Metro Metal, stone coated metal and architectural shingles.