DefinitelyDressage.com

Seriously though. Are hunter and dressage mutually exclusive? I'm riding with a hunter trainer now, not even jumping, just ground poles and I'm really enjoying it. It's a bit of a stretch for me. Saturday I had a dressage lesson as a refresher and Ariel was so good with it. I want to do both, and see dressage as training, not just movements. Is it possible to be a hunter princess/dressage queen? Ariel was a school horse for years and before that raced so a bit of a hard mouth which we are retraining.

Of course you can. Many hunter riders take dressage lessons to improve their horses' flexibility, adjustability, and suppleness, and lots of dressage riders do low level hunter stuff to give their horses a change of focus. Go for it!

I think it will make you a better rider and Ariel a better horse.

It's good to switch it up. I would jump Maya once a week because she was so lazy and it improved her canter and forwardness for dressage.

yes, However, its hard to keep them on the bit when things get "fun" jumping.... I take lessons from someone who does both, dressage MUST be a fundamental. Maybe get slammed for this but many HJ trainers can't maintain a dressage horse's foundation. YMMV

Otherwise, yes, cross training is essential. I just have to watch my posture that it doesn't creep in certain habits when I ride HJ.

But I feel cool

I agree that most hunter-jumper trainers cannot maintain a dressage horse's foundation. The things that pass for lateral work in HJ land are a far cry from "real"

Really, as much as I admire George Morris, his definition of a shoulder-in is a far cry from a dressage shoulder-in. The h/j trainers at my barn confess they know nothing about dressage.....I cringe when the teens talk about "collecting" their hunters. I soldier on, and make no waves. I kinda like that you can just zizz around being a hunter.....

Least anyone forget GM spent three years (after his jr years) with Gunnar Andersen (trainer of Olympic medalists). So he not only learned dressage, but also the european jumping techniques (Gunnar was a graduate of Stronsholm). Until recent times all young horses were generalists (flat and o.f.), and then specialists. Same for riders. Imho it isn't cross training, it is normal training. And jumping ideally continues even when the horse is a specialist (at least free jumping if not more).

galopp wrote:Least anyone forget GM spent three years (after his jr years) with Gunnar Andersen (trainer of Olympic medalists). So he not only learned dressage, but also the european jumping techniques (Gunnar was a graduate of Stronsholm). Until recent times all young horses were generalists (flat and o.f.), and then specialists. Same for riders. Imho it isn't cross training, it is normal training. And jumping ideally continues even when the horse is a specialist (at least free jumping if not more).

Sure, but as someone who rides with more HJ than dressage, this isn't reality. No one can put the horse on the bit, or ride straight. YMMV.
I have had to really PROTECT my foundations.

That is unfortunate, but then it speaks to poor riding and even worse teaching. The entire crest release behavior has destroyed methodical training and equitation. But the better the equitation likely the better the jumping. I remember a HS finals where the winning rider had to do changes every two...the winner did lovely straight tempi.

galopp wrote:That is unfortunate, but then it speaks to poor riding and even worse teaching. The entire crest release behavior has destroyed methodical training and equitation. But the better the equitation likely the better the jumping. I remember a HS finals where the winning rider had to do changes every two...the winner did lovely straight tempi.

No one is disagreeing with you Of course it's not correct, but that is reality. All I can control is my horse and my training.

Ryeissa wrote:Sure, but as someone who rides with more HJ than dressage, this isn't reality. No one can put the horse on the bit, or ride straight. YMMV.

There are an awful lot of dressage riders who can neither keep their horse on the bit nor ride straight.

A good h/j trainer should enhance the dressage with good cross training, but a good trainer of any discipline can be hard to find.

Unless you are going for elite levels, I can speak from experience that the hunters are actually a little wowed by decent dressage - though they don't approach their training in the same way and will likely poo-poo your routine schooling sessions. Where I live, there are more hunters than anything and I spent many years boarding at hunter barns because that's what most of them were. So everybody thought I was just crazy and gave me sideways glances when I worked on things in a different way than they did. The likely thought I was ruining a perfectly good horse. But a couple of things happened along the way to vindicate me:

1. A close friend was part of the organization committee for the Canadian Sport Horse Breed association and had arranged to have one of their shows at our barn. She was worried that she might not have enough entries and begged me to enter my OTTB in the under saddle classes - who was eligible because he was under 6 and registered (not as CSH but any registry would do for this). As I prepared to go in the ring, someone asked me what I was thinking - he's just a thoroughbred and he hasn't even had proper training . We proceeded to finish first in hunter and second in dressage (these shows were judged on potential based on the horse's conformation and movement, not actual training). Because that same woman irked several other people competing that same year, they all asked me to bring my horse to the 3rd and final show of the series because he could still be eligible to beat that lady's horse for year end awards, even though we didn't go to the first show of the series. Three other horses that had previously beat her horse went also (none had been to all 3 shows except the nasty woman's horse). At that one, we won dressage and finished second in hunter. We ended up as champion hunter and reserve champion dressage for the year. Clearly the judges appreciated what my boy could do for both disciplines.

2. After my divorce I needed a part boarder so I could afford to keep my horse. At this point, I'd been showing 1st level and training 2nd level and my OTTB was well established on the path of dressage. But there were no dressage part boarders so he got a hunter - who took lessons with the hunter coaches and went to hunter shows. He always wowed them - over fences and on the flat. If anything, his dressage training made him a better hunter. Even the hunter coaches were surprised he could do so well because they only saw me "dressaging" him day after day and thought I was ruining him. But all of that taught him balance and rhythm which only helped him in the hunter ring. Without being "held together" on contact, moving "up" into the bit, he went on the forehand the way they like but kept his rhythm and straightness while still using his hind end - mostly because that's what he was used to. So he did very well and it didn't hurt my dressage training at all - if anything it made him a little fresher because he was getting a bit of a change.

So go ahead and be both - but prepare for criticism from both sides. Most of all, have fun and make sure your horse is still happy in his work so he gives you his best.

zevida wrote:

Ryeissa wrote:Sure, but as someone who rides with more HJ than dressage, this isn't reality. No one can put the horse on the bit, or ride straight. YMMV.

There are an awful lot of dressage riders who can neither keep their horse on the bit nor ride straight.

A good h/j trainer should enhance the dressage with good cross training, but a good trainer of any discipline can be hard to find.

If I could "like" this a million times, I would.