DefinitelyDressage.com

Those young horses can bulk out a LOT between yrs 4-6. The mare may end up looking a lot draftier when she matures.

khall wrote:Xan it said Canadian sport horse and draft, I don't see draft in there at all. Who the heck knows. I have a buckskin that is Lusitano cross with NO QH.

No it doesn't look drafty at all right now. It looks like a nice horse! Honestly, I'm baffled at that low price. My mare is buckskin too and she is TB/Han Cross. Not all buckskin's are qh's.

Goldsboro is sort of in the middle of nowhere. That may contribute to the price. Who knows.

Xan lookie here!
https://www.dreamhorse.com/ad/2116090.html

She can JUMP!

One more

https://www.dreamhorse.com/ad/2071790.html

Just showing you the prices here in the east. Don't know how feasible it is to look here though.

Too cute! Also too short - looking for at least 16, prefer 16.1-3

Added another one that is 16. She is already going. Hmm that may be an old add. Age does not makes sense.

I agree horse shopping is not easy!

I liked the responses I got when I put together an ISO email and mailed it directly to pros I knew also sold horses.

Also, have you looked at the OTTBs that Jessica Redman has? Benchmark Sport Horses or jleegriffith on COTH. She's got a fabulous eye for horses and represents them as honestly as possible but make no mistake, they are right off the track and priced accordingly. If nothing else, it's really fun to see what she gets in and to see their videos.

Also, have you looked at Brit Vegas Gengenbach's horses? I do not know her, but she seems to have a good eye and choose good horses from the track. She's in Nebraska, so closer than Delaware or other East Coast horses. She's on FB for fun video stalking.

Here's one video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_Ntexq ... e=youtu.be

If you're considering something unbroke, I had my eye on this 2-yo Cleveland Bay over in Oregon. Only $6,500. Looks like she has a motor. Not sure if she's still available but ad is still on FB Dressage Horses Worth $10,00 and under. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMdOLBG ... mWI9K12rX0

scruffy the cat wrote:Also, have you looked at Brit Vegas Gengenbach's horses? I do not know her, but she seems to have a good eye and choose good horses from the track. She's in Nebraska, so closer than Delaware or other East Coast horses. She's on FB for fun video stalking.

Here's one video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_Ntexq ... e=youtu.be

That horse is a freak. I want it. Stalking her now.

Never mind: is OTTB and had a month in hospital for some surgery last year.

StraightForward wrote:If you're considering something unbroke, I had my eye on this 2-yo Cleveland Bay over in Oregon. Only $6,500.

Nothing under 3. Don’t fancy her canter. Do like the Cleveland Bay aspect, and the motor!

scruffy the cat wrote:...Also, have you looked at the OTTBs...

No OTTBs. Been there. T shirt etc.

musical comedy wrote:

khall wrote:Xan it said Canadian sport horse and draft, I don't see draft in there at all. Who the heck knows. I have a buckskin that is Lusitano cross with NO QH.

No it doesn't look drafty at all right now. It looks like a nice horse! Honestly, I'm baffled at that low price. My mare is buckskin too and she is TB/Han Cross. Not all buckskin's are qh's.

I bet there is no laterality in your mare's canter, though. Maybe that figures into it.

Tsavo wrote:I bet there is no laterality in your mare's canter, though. Maybe that figures into it.

I watched what I thought was most of that video clip and didn't see any canter work. Was there another video of this horse. LOL, I paid 5x that for my mare and don't regret it.

You have to click on the name and the other videos are there. It is really bizarre how that horse is marketed. That might be something a person does who doesn't really want to sell.

Believe me, Xan, I hear you on the OTTB soundness thing. I actually am so wary that even OTTB crosses wig me out. That being said, I can't wrap my head around how all that woman's OTTBs seem to move in the same delicious way. Hey- watching the videos is totally free and you never, ever have to have the vet out!

Yes she does have some lovelies! I can't locate prices or ads though so that, and another thing I found, give me pause about this seller.

Elisa Wallace finds some damn nice OTTB. She competed in the TB makeover with 2 this year. Here is one, he won the eventing and most wanted award:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNAJsHC ... e=youtu.be

This one I want as a dressage horse, he can MOVE!

https://www.facebook.com/wallaceeventin ... 974229243/

She's done well with OTTB s eventing them. Simply Priceless is her Advanced horse, a cross country machine.

As far as I know she picks them herself.

That's great.... but I do not want an OTTB. I have had two, and been around many more. I am done with horses that come off the track broken, with exotic shoeing needs, and very hard keepers. Done.

Recap of needs

16-17h
3-8 years.
No OTTBs. No draft crosses.
Prelim capable. Brave, smart. easy keeper, GREAT feet. Healthy.

ETA it's easier for a pro to sift thru hundreds of OTTBs to find those few that stay sound, and if not, they sell them. I only want one horse - I am not a horse trader, I can't afford lots of horses, and I don't have land - I board, so multiple horses cannot be done. If a horse goes lame I'm stuck with it till the end - my last retiree went 8 expensive retired years. So, I'm really really firm on requirements

Do you have a budget limit?

I like color:)

https://www.equine.com/horses-for-sale/ ... e-champion

One more

https://www.equine.com/horses-for-sale/ ... -prospects

Xan, this one would be good for you. 5 year old imported Irish gelding. Placing 2nd at first Training Level event. Good basics with Doug Payne as the rider. Only problem is $$$. My belief is (as I've written before) that in the long run it is cheaper to just put up the big bucks for what you want rather than picking door #3 and hoping. That is of course assuming the big bucks are there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... 10EuR0uFdQ

Xanthoria wrote:Yes she does have some lovelies! I can't locate prices or ads though so that, and another thing I found, give me pause about this seller.

Here's something to cheer you up about passing on that OTTB (if you weren't already firm on it already). The one in the video? Is $30K. You read that right. For an uncertain OTTB. Yeah... no. But it doesn't stop me enjoying the video!

Really, what I've found is for the most part, the good horses aren't listed and DEFINITELY not on Equine.com or Dreamhorse. They're gone before they become ads, if you know what I mean. Emailing your favorite eventers and asking what they've got does seem to yield some interesting results.

AND THEN THERE'S OUR DUBLIN TRIP.

I don't agree scruffy that Totilas 2 yr old showed up on my FB feed, great price with tons of talent. Smaller sellers don't have the connections to get the word out. Totilas gelding had first been advertised in July I believe. There are lots of horses for sale out there and unless you are a bigger operation, well known name etc you get lost in the shuffle.

khall wrote:I don't agree scruffy that Totilas 2 yr old showed up on my FB feed, great price with tons of talent. Smaller sellers don't have the connections to get the word out. Totilas gelding had first been advertised in July I believe. There are lots of horses for sale out there and unless you are a bigger operation, well known name etc you get lost in the shuffle.

Agree khall. My trainer has sold several very expensive horses off facebook sales sites within the last couple years and I personally know of another local trainer that has done the same. I'm talking 6 figure horses. Even well known trainers need to advertise.

And in fact, I did find the horse I bought via FB. It absolutely is done. But there's a whole lot of horse trading that goes on behind the scenes as well and it's a wise shopper who knows that.


BUT...
I would also venture that if that Totilas youngster was still for sale after it was advertised starting in July, then I'd question why not. Because the 2nd thing I've found is that if one gets to the FB stage, the good ones (priced appropriately) sell very, very quickly. Just because the horse is by Totilas does not mean they are perfect. There is one FANCY 5 year old with a lovely video who is advertised a fair bit right now but not selling and it has already been disclosed to me by the seller that she's already got arthritic changes in her neck, has been injected, and actually isn't as ammy friendly as the ad suggests. So if they look amazing on paper but don't sell pretty quickly, I definitely question it.

Again small sellers just do not have the ability to get the word out IMO. Totilas gelding has since sold. There are so many horses for sale here in Georgia. We have Atlanta (big horse area Alpharetta) we have Aiken (I am 3 hours from Aiken) we have Florida (I am 4 hours from Ocala). Wide range of horses from cheap back yard to high end FEI.

Xan would you look at a TB that was never raced or trained? Florida has quite a few of those, Aiken too.

I would look at a TB that never trained for the track and wasn’t started before 3, yes.

Budget: I’d like to stay under $20k, esp if I have to travel to see. I could stretch to $30k for a unicorn but it’d have be going Training, a stunning jump, the heart of a lion and gaits of a supermodel!

Min I hope for is a great walk and canter, clears 4’ in the jump chute comfortably, at least started under saddle, and not spooky... IMEX nobody puts babies thru a chute in this country so that’s always been a novel ask...

Also I emailed Doug Payne!

scruffy $30k for that OTTB? She doesn’t want to sell it. She wants to syndicate!

khall wrote:Again small sellers just do not have the ability to get the word out IMO. Totilas gelding has since sold. There are so many horses for sale here in Georgia. We have Atlanta (big horse area Alpharetta) we have Aiken (I am 3 hours from Aiken) we have Florida (I am 4 hours from Ocala). Wide range of horses from cheap back yard to high end FEI.

I agree there are a lot of horses for sale in your general area. But if one is looking for a draft cross, I would tell them to look in western Canada, among the fox hunters in the Mid Atlantic states, and even ranch bred horses. And of course PMU babies if you can stomach supporting that psychopathic industry.

Have you seen any reasonable selection of draft crosses in the SE? I haven't. I have been here since 2006 and have never seen a horse like mine whereas the barn I came from in Calgary had 5-6 draft crosses all doing dressage. I would wager there is NO barn in NC with 5-6 draft crosses able to be training in dressage at the same time.

Xanthoria wrote:I would look at a TB that never trained for the track and wasn’t started before 3, yes.

Only if it is sporthorse need, not race bred. The worst horse I ever had I bought as a basically un-started 4 year old. He had been very lightly started to race, but never made it to the track. In contrast to a bonafide OTTB, he was basically feral and he turned out to be majorly cold backed (in addition to biting and striking). After three years struggling with him, I finally gave him away and that person (a local pro) did manage to get him to Prelim, with sever RF’s on his record including the last time she took him out.

My next worst disaster was also a basically in-started 4 year old, not full TB so not in the race pipeline at all. Really lovely temperament, but he was riddled with physical problems that wouldn’t show up in an in-ridden horse.

My take away is that if they aren’t started by 4, something is wrong. Someone tried to start them and either for temperament or physical reasons, it didn’t go well and that’s why they are selling.

Yes, that is totally unfair to all the people who want to give their young horses time to grow up. But to me, either the horse isn’t started because it’s a young 3, or it is going w/t/c.

A bit far (TX), but has some jump chute video. Classic Event breeding (WB SJ lines on top and bottom + some TB on bottom). Says started under saddle but there's no video to prove it. 2014 mare, $15k:
https://www.warmblood-sales.com/HorseDe ... erID=10761

Another on the TX front. 2015 mare, Holst x? breeding, has a jump chute video, started under saddle. $20k
https://www.warmblood-sales.com/HorseDe ... erID=13183

^ Actually just saw this one dropped to $15k and "has a finding on the xrays"-- probably a pass, huh?

Tsavo the TB/Perch came from NC from a dressage barn. I am not a fan of draft crosses in general and certainly not for dressage. They are not my cup of tea for many reasons. The fox hunters I have had contact with in more recent years have gone to OTTBs and one I talked with recently say many are using TWH, cheap horses and good minded. Years ago I had a friend who did breed 3/4 1/4 for the field but she has been gone now for several years. As for draft crosses in dressage barns, not very often. The TB/Perch here was bought by a FEI rider out of the field and flipped. But she is PSSM1, half and half. I doubt seriously you will find a draft cross being trained in dressage here in the SE. Too many WBs and now the Iberians and yes Friesians around. I sold a TB/Perch for a friend many years ago and he went as a fox hunter. They wanted a dozen more just like him. Not a high level dressage mount by any stretch of the imagination.

I don't like the horse MC posted at all. Too scrambly in the canter IMO. He looked so awkward going around.

There are quite a few here in the East coast that breed for event horses (young event horse championship) Denny Emerson is one. Classic TB lines specifically bred for eventing. Don't forget the Trakhener stallion too that is or was breeding here on the East coast for upper level mounts. I would reach out to those breeders and see what they have.

And to me the problems in the breed probably start before then, or at least in America. The breed has not been bred for longevity or soundness. They are designed to run as fast as possible and be done by 3. So maturing early and ending early. There are definitely outliers, but it does seem like the general statistics are not good.

Likewise with draft crosses. Why we seem to think a pulling breed will be sound in a carrying job is beyond me.

Oh yes, let's not discount the full WBs that have neck issues, prone to suspensory issues, and other neuro problems.

QHs with their HYPP and PSSM...

Ugh. I have PTSD. There are no sound horses. I'm going to crawl back under my rock.

YEH championship here:

https://www.fairhillinternational.com/f ... mpionship/ will be breeders there.

khall wrote:I don't like the horse MC posted at all. Too scrambly in the canter IMO. He looked so awkward going around.

I don't like him for ME for Dressage. He is for eventing and jumping the big fences at speed. And he's only 5. I am assuming that Xan wants jumping ability over dressage ability. Besides, that horse was second at Training Level Eventing with a dressage for of 29 so the judge apparently didn't agree that he scrambled.

I've got another one. Sternlicht x TB, 2015, started under saddle, $12k, located in Maine:
http://www.hilltopfarminc.com/horse/schonheit/

No horses in the MId-Atlantic through New England- all will have had Lyme exposure and/or Lyme.

Tsavo wrote:Have you seen any reasonable selection of draft crosses in the SE? I haven't. I have been here since 2006 and have never seen a horse like mine whereas the barn I came from in Calgary had 5-6 draft crosses all doing dressage. I would wager there is NO barn in NC with 5-6 draft crosses able to be training in dressage at the same time.

They just don't typically do as well in the heat as other non-draft horses. I suspect that's part of why you're observing what you've observed (and also that the US has come a long way in breeding quality european-bred WBs since the early 2000s, which has reduced the demand on the draft/TB cross).

scruffy the cat wrote:Ugh. I have PTSD. There are no sound horses. I'm going to crawl back under my rock.

Ugh. Me too! Horse shopping sucks! I can’t believe how many awful experiences I have had and tears shed. Why can’t I just like tennis or something?

scruffy the cat wrote:Likewise with draft crosses. Why we seem to think a pulling breed will be sound in a carrying job is beyond me.

You are obviously unaware of Flynn, the PMU baby who made it to GP and got his Mommy her gold on her first two rides at GP.

There are draft crosses and then there a draft crosses. They are a mixed bag and the excellent ones at dressage are excellent at dressage.

Tsavo I know it happens, but I do feel like they're the exception that proves the rule though, eh? They've been bred for hundreds of years to pull, and be "cold blooded" by nature. Even a cross has 50% or so of that genetics. Otherwise they'd dominate at the Olympics, right?

Given the example of Flynn, it is an enduring mystery why draft crosses do not dominate Olympic dressage!

Flynn is one horse. I think it's pretty excellent, but a statistical sample of one is pretty low odds. And I bet he looks wonderful doing it, too. My point is more that there are statistically significant numbers of drafts and draft crosses who could not physically withstand the workload of a carrying job. Show me dozens and dozens of sound UL draft cross eventers and dressage horses and I'll happily change my mind. I love an underdog.

Tsavo wrote:Given the example of Flynn, it is an enduring mystery why draft crosses do not dominate Olympic dressage!

Hey now, he's more QH than draft! 5/8 QH, 3/8 Belgian, according to this article:
https://www.dressagetalk.com/single-pos ... Grand-Prix

Tsavo wrote:Given the example of Flynn, it is an enduring mystery why draft crosses do not dominate Olympic dressage!

what?

Xan I hear you, I don't like OTTBs or draft X either....

what is your preferred type?

I want a TB x WB, a ight bodied WB, an ISH, and maybe an Anglo Arab, arab x WB or similar.

End of the day: light on their feet, very scopy jumper, forward and smart.

Xanthoria wrote:I want a TB x WB, a ight bodied WB, an ISH, and maybe an Anglo Arab, arab x WB or similar.

End of the day: light on their feet, very scopy jumper, forward and smart.

you want my horse then? hahahah
Thanks for the update, I will put thinking cap on

yes please. on both

Drafts are built to pull and not carry is why they are not the go to dressage horse. Frankly I feel about them the way you do Friesians Tsavo(which are way more likely of doing well in the sand box than a draft cross). So many have poor canters (Juliet actually has a pretty good canter), they are shoulder heavy and big headed. I was amazed watching when Cottonwood Flame was showing GP that that big horse could do FEI.

BTW it is sidebone not ringbone they are more inclined to have. Also, draft horses or horses with heavier builds are more likely to develop sidebone than lighter weight horses. from: https://equimed.com/diseases-and-condit ... e/sidebone

Xan I hope you can find something, horse shopping and breeding and horse owning can be nerve wracking (as my filly did something screwing around in the pasture and now lame LR:( Saw the hole thing and still not quite sure what she did other than tear up her foot. Found a slight gouge just below the coronet and the toe is peeling back. Going to have to put rear shoes on her.

Ponichiwa wrote:

Tsavo wrote:Given the example of Flynn, it is an enduring mystery why draft crosses do not dominate Olympic dressage!

Hey now, he's more QH than draft! 5/8 QH, 3/8 Belgian, according to this article:
https://www.dressagetalk.com/single-pos ... Grand-Prix

Nice article! Thanks for posting it.

Fynn is 100% draft cross!