DefinitelyDressage.com

In my long whiny thread about my first world problem (...horse shopping sucks) I am looking for a 4-8 yr old to go Prelim eventing.

No closer to that aim, because I have a budget, so buying a made Prelim horse in its prime is out, and another goal is creeping in.

Go Prelim on a horse I trained myself in several years, or maybe never due to ineptitude*? Or buy an older Prelim horse and do it in a year or two before I lose my bravery, and learn a lot?

A mare came up for sale today that's ready to rock, but 13 going on 14... might only have a few more years... and would take ALL my budget... but is that the journey I want? I had a sort-of schoolmaster before and what a thrill. I have started my own baby, and brought an OTTB to schooling Training on my own.

Hm. How to reconcile?

*Some say Prelim is only 3'7" and so basic that like only wussies could fail. So why are the Prelim classes empty with 2 divisions at P compared to 6 at T, and 5 at N?

Well, I wanted to get to intro level eventing (for us 80cm - 2'6'') thinking that all horses can do that. Well Ding can't, he just doesn't have the bravery to jump unless everything is perfect. So, I'd be inclined to buy one that already can jump the height you want, or one that is jumping lower but isn't having any issues.

Get the older been there done that horse. You can do Prelim for 2-3 years at least.

Xanthoria wrote:*Some say Prelim is only 3'7" and so basic that like only wussies could fail. So why are the Prelim classes empty with 2 divisions at P compared to 6 at T, and 5 at N?

Because that is baloney even for BN. Eventing, even at the lower levels is challenging and not all horses can do it. Prelim is difficult and dangerous. A safe going Prelim horse is mid-5 figures+ for a reason? It’s hard to get a horse to that level! I’m at an eventing barn that holds a recognized event every year (with Prelim and P/T) and many schooling events. And out of 40 horses, I’m not sure anyone has a sound, going Prelim horse right now, despite having several owners/riders who have competed at Prelim, a trainer who competed Advanced back in the long format days, and several well-funded teens with UL as their goal. Now that I think about it, in the summer we definitely have one. One!

Xanthoria wrote:
A mare came up for sale today that's ready to rock, but 13 going on 14... might only have a few more years... and would take ALL my budget... but is that the journey I want? I had a sort-of schoolmaster before and what a thrill. I have started my own baby, and brought an OTTB to schooling Training on my own.

I'd get her! You can't predict the future. This mare could be going strong for many years to come. All horses are a crap shoot, so choose based on what the horse is doing Today.

This is a good friend's (now) 14 year old granddaughter running Prelim on her 22 year old OTTB. Her horse turned 23 today.
https://youtu.be/M7vUtLOMRU4

Amanda, riding this horse, was one of 12 riders across the country selected for the U.S. Equestrian Federation’s Emerging Athlete Eventing 18 program.

So I say, get the mare! You never know how many good years you will have with her.

If the horse is safe and sound, definitely use up all your budget. That’s why you have a budget. No extra points for coming in under, as you’ve learned already. 14 is the ideal age for what you want!

I used all my budget on a going, but not competed young horse and so far it’s been a disaster.

Loved that video and I am not even a big jumping fan! What a pair! That is real trust between a good horse and good rider.

Adding to my first post. 14 is not too old in this day and age. If you compete for 4 years, the horse will be 18. At that point, the horse could go to a rider as a low level school master/mistress. If you like the mare and click with her, get her. You said having a previous school master was a thrill.

As to your broader question of what are goals and how do you achieve them, I think about that all the time. My understanding is that goal setting should involve looking at the bigger picture of what you want to achieve, then looking at the pieces of the puzzle needed to get there, then deciding if the pieces are possible and also if they justify the end goal. Like if the pieces are all sacrifice and drudgery, will that be worth it in the end? And if the achieving a goal involves too much drudgery, what is a goal that would be similarly satisfying but with more enjoyable steps along the way?

I do think that to go Prelim for the first time safely, one needs to be riding with a UL trainer who has other students riding at the upper levels. Not necessarily at their barn, but hauling in at least 1x a week. When you’ve done a few years at Prelim, then you can drop down to just clinics several times a year. I also think the horse you need to bomb around and have a good time on at N/T is not the same horse you need to be safe at Prelim. I think this is part of the struggle in finding what you are looking for, if you are hoping for a horse that can do P, but is still fun/competitive at N/T if you never get there. My observation in Area 1 is that future Prelim horses blow through BN/N/T in 2 seasons or so and aren’t hugely competitive at those lower levels because of dressage. Then they leave the “better” dressage horses behind when the jumping gets harder.

I thought my search would be easier because I only want to do BN/N, really no ambition to do T, and I want to do well in dressage. And I thought I had a decent budget for what I wanted to do ($25k). But any quiet, sound horse that can do N, can also do more which means $$$$. And those that couldn’t do more, or that had poor dressage, were limited by soundness problems (whether or not the seller realized/admitted it). But I followed the goal setting steps I talked about above, and still am not even competing and it’s unclear if my horse is even sound. And I have no idea how to figure out what I’m doing wrong.

Yeah, this is the part about not being able to pull the trigger. I couldn't. Hope you can.

I'd go with the seasoned mare.

Two things. Prelim is the START of real eventing. I know, I know, we've all done BNovice and Novice and Training thinking Prelim is a big step up. But Prelim was the start of the pro levels before we went back and added the amateur levels in. OK, maybe Training was. But the pros don't take horses novice. Waste of time. They SCHOOL low stuff, but they don't compete it (unless the horse is going to stay at those levels, and they want the scores for marketing). The reason Prelim classes are smaller is that there are fewer pros in the world, and the ammies are being catered to to support the upper level stuff. Yeah, yeah, everybody will come up with an example, but that's the exception proving the rule.

(I've always thought it was a pretty funny cosmic joke that the height of my ambition was to do something that sounded so rudimentary as "preliminary".)

Anyway, so my belief is that virtually any horse with the guts to jump eventing fences can do Prelim. Can't do it well perhaps, possibly can't do the speed (which isn't ALL that fast, but is faster than an arena hunter). But they have to have a certain non-stop sense of braveness. That's the difference you see when you jump judge a lot. You see Novice horses that stop but the Prelim horses are saying "Point me, point me!" They virtually only stop when you don't point them right or miss the spot and they can't save your butt. However, the problem with bringing along your own is you might pick the wrong raw material, there's lots of room for injury along the way, and you back down from your goal (because you need to bring the horse along). None of which gets you to your goal.

I'm rooting for you, Xan!

KathyK wrote:This is a good friend's (now) 14 year old granddaughter running Prelim on her 22 year old OTTB. Her horse turned 23 today.
https://youtu.be/M7vUtLOMRU4

Amanda, riding this horse, was one of 12 riders across the country selected for the U.S. Equestrian Federation’s Emerging Athlete Eventing 18 program.

So I say, get the mare! You never know how many good years you will have with her.

That was wonderful to watch, the rider praising her horse, the horse loving his job, and what a beautiful mover. You gotta love a thoroughbred.


IF your goal is to ride Prelim, the less risky is buying a horse already there. I hear ya on the older horse issue, but you've got that crapshoot (soundness) regardless of what age you buy. If I was spending your $$$$

aregard wrote:(I've always thought it was a pretty funny cosmic joke that the height of my ambition was to do something that sounded so rudimentary as "preliminary".)

HAH!

KathyK, that's a lovely smooth round at Prelim on that TB!

OK, well I called about the mare today - going to see her Friday after next. She sounds like a good jumper but lousy/very tense at dressage. That I can work with. I've been able to get a great free walk out of a jigger before, and when he did an actual stretchy trot circle I just about cried They say she's sound, no maintenance, started late and began competing at 7 so allegedly young for her age. Being sold by a well known trainer, so likelihood of shenanigans lower... I'd hope...

Bip, I like the goal setting breakdown. To your other point, when competing I clinicked monthly with an UL trainer (to Olympians), and have a great dressage trainer who comes to me at 1-3 x a month. I'd still have to qualify for P, so I'd likely do a year at T for that. It'll be a somewhat slower road than those who live/breathe with their trainer daily. I felt that was sufficient for T, but we shall see for P.

BTW I did see a couple greenies recently that'd do well in dressage and go do BN/N this year I'd expect if you're interested? Not sure if you're looking, but sad to hear you'd used up your budget and didn't get what you needed.... that happened to me with the baby I bought

Bip wrote: I do think that to go Prelim for the first time safely, one needs to be riding with a UL trainer who has other students riding at the upper levels. Not necessarily at their barn, but hauling in at least 1x a week. When you’ve done a few years at Prelim, then you can drop down to just clinics several times a year. I also think the horse you need to bomb around and have a good time on at N/T is not the same horse you need to be safe at Prelim.

Bip has so much good advice here that I quote it. The young women at my barn who are casual about bringing up horses to Prelim+ had a schoolmaster before their latest youngster who taught them how it is and how to ride it. It is quite a bit of learning and safety to have a been there done that horse.

Therefore, not unreasonable to consider AT All! JMHO.

Xanthoria wrote:BTW I did see a couple greenies recently that'd do well in dressage and go do BN/N this year I'd expect if you're interested? Not sure if you're looking, but sad to hear you'd used up your budget and didn't get what you needed.... that happened to me with the baby I bought

Aw, thanks. At the end of September, I decided that the joke about needing to have three horses to have one sound one might not be a joke after all. I have my old guy on free lease as a lesson horse (1) and my young horse who ranges from phenomenal to NQR (2), so I picked up a 3 year old off the track. He’s been in training at a barn 45 min away so I haven’t been able to monitor his progress, though reports are good. Today he shipped down to Aiken for the winter. Perhaps by spring, I will have a sound horse to do YEH/FEH with.

I still believe in that line of thought: prove us right Bip! Have one out of three be sound at all times! *tears of hope*

And I’m counting on you to find a sound, capable one too!

Why does it feel wrong to dream of riding like a 14 year old?