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We used to have a lot of biologists here as I recall and also some may remember a bit of my experience with grad school when I got my masters so... so I thouht this might be a good place to mull over some thoughts. I've been working as a tech in a research lab. I'm over qualified for the position and the pay is crap, though I did get a raise last year. And in academia you're nothing unless you have a PhD. In fact even if you know more and work harder than some post docs you still get the short end of the stick.

My original plan was to put in 2 years and then move to industry. It's been 2 years. But I'm hesitating about industry. Maybe this is very narrow minded of me but I have some reasons for not really wanting to go into industry:

Basic science intrests me more. I get more excited about learning how things work and not so interested in how it aplies to cancer or disease.
I don 't want to work in Boston. Sounds silly I know but I just would rather work in a more rural setting. It is very important to me.
I feel like there are jobs I might want to do or have the option of doing that i can't do without PhD.

So I asked my boss if I could get a phd in her lab and she said yes. I am hoping that I can hit the ground running since I already know the lab and I know the organism well. But it means a pay cut and optomistically five years of my life. I could probably go into industry now and work for 5 years to get a better position while getting much much better pay.

I don't want to be a PI. I would like to be a senior scientist. I want just to be able to focus on research. If I stay this route my salary will never be much. I will make the same amount as the guy who fills the vending machines no joke. Actually probably a little less. And if I decide after all to go into industry I am told that having a doctorate makes it nearly impossible to get a job....although it doesn't seem that way to me when I look at job postings and also take note of how quickly recent grads from my department get jobs... Also I work with a model organism not mice or cell lines which means an industry job would be harder to get.

But I also think if I want to get a phd now is the time to get it. I still will have to live off my parents but maybe I can get it done faster than average because, like I said I can hit the ground running. My lab produces good PhDs and is well funded. The PI is hard but good at training people and supportive of her grad students. So am I crazy to do this? I felt so sure of myself before I asked the boss but now that she said yes I'm having doubts. I seem to often make bad decisions so will this be another one?

Yes. Sorry I forgot to say I changed my name but I used to be frogling.

Boudicea wrote:So am I crazy to do this? I felt so sure of myself before I asked the boss but now that she said yes I'm having doubts. I seem to often make bad decisions so will this be another one?

Oh my, what a tough decision. If you haven't already, you may want to talk to some PhD's who are now doing what you'd like to end up doing, to find out if they had the decision to make over again if they would have made the same one.

I don't think I ever discussed it at length with any of the PhD's I worked with, although I'm pretty sure (judging by their behavior) that some of them regretted choosing that path once they realized how little free time they had. I do know that after working in that environment for 30-some years it made me truly appreciate the choices I made (BS, lab tech job that left me with time and energy to do other things).

Looking back, I'd say that overall the money doesn't matter because it's all a trade off, anyway. We either spend more time working and have more money and less free time, or we spend less time working and have less money and more free time.

I think what makes these decisions so difficult is that neither choice is the right or wrong one, because they both have their frustrations and their rewards, so whether we think one is better or worse depends entirely upon our own perceptions.

Staying off the merrygoround.

Get the PhD, it opens so may doors long term.

Tarlo Farm.
Nice to see you haven't changed. Thanks for your constructive input.

Here's my take...I got a BSc in Microbiology, and worked in various research labs. I had toyed with the idea of getting an MSc, but there was not a significant pay increase (ex, in Canadian Federal labs you are generally eligible for the same jobs as BSc techs, but start a little higher up the pay scale). Many of my friends (and all of the PIs i worked for) had PhDs, and were VERY far removed from day to day experimentation. I worked in government, university, and private (bleh) sectors, and the same rang true for all. The number of hours put in by the PhDs was much, much higher than the techs...and I wanted evenings and weekends off to ride/show.

It sounds like i"m against getting one, which I am absolutely not. Now that I'm older and wiser (I've been a SAHM for quite a few years), many of my PhD friends who are nearing retirement have very comfortable job situations (hard earned), and are reaping the rewards.

Try not to think about what other people make (ie vending machine guy), can you afford the lifestyle you want to lead (and not a fantasyland one)..nice place to live, vehicle, pets, horses..Do you like the work you're doing now? I would say that if you want to do 40hrs/week of lab work, then getting a PhD may take you away from that. If you are looking for broader research opportunities, travel, possible teaching positions, writing papers...then a PhD would suit you well.

Would there be a decrease in $$ if you pursue the PhD with your boss, via continuing to work for her as you are now?

I work in industry
A majority of our Phd and Senior scientists focus on the minutiae of how things work. That focus draws heavily on their ( and others ) academics

I dont have a Phd or a Masters but love my job, am always challenged and earned enough that I can put away half of it into my retirement fund.

I think you need to get out in to the real world and see for yourself. You might see there are different companies with different cultures where you can excel and be challenged.

not all jobs are in Boston or even on the east coast

Frogling, if you need background on opportunities in US national labs feel free to get in touch.

Talk to GoldRuler aka DollarHorse here. She just got her PhD!

There ARE jobs in Worcester and outlying areas. You just need to keep on the lookout for them. For what it is worth, I worked in basic science research when I first got out of college and now I am working in industry albeit not doing science anymore. I far prefer the faster pace of industry (although not the money woes of start ups).

You have me confused with someone else. You must admit, this is hardly the first time you've presented exactly such a dilemma.

Thanks to everyone for the input.

Tarlo Farm
You've been unpleasant to me in the past. So perhaps in the future you can just move along if what I post bothers you. I'm sure you have better things to do besides trying to make me feel bad about myself.

As an older person, I can tell you that all you can do is make the decision you think is best at the time. And then work at doing your best no matter how things turn out. There are a lot of things we just can't control. Fortunately, we can control our attitudes. Stay positive and enjoy what you have.

DH got his Ph.D. and went quickly into industry. Mass Spec, first apps chemist, finally CEO of company. He retired a few years ago. He enjoyed the challenge although the stress was way more than I could have handled.

I got a BS and worked as a lab tech for a while and then a QC chemist. I never really enjoyed the work although at times I found it mildly interesting. The GOOD thing was I was able to get employment where ever we went and I could support my horse addiction. I tried to keep my hours at 40/wk and even with a long commute, I was still able to ride my horse almost every day. I could also afford to board at nice stables with indoor arenas.

demi wrote:I got a BS and worked as a lab tech for a while and then a QC chemist. I never really enjoyed the work although at times I found it mildly interesting.

It took me a long time before I was able to get into my work, but I did get better at it eventually. And then I realized that if only I could have done that sooner I would have been a lot less frustrated about having to spend so much time at work!

Tarlo Farm wrote:You have me confused with someone else. You must admit, this is hardly the first time you've presented exactly such a dilemma.

Whether that is true or not, there is no need to bring it up. Don't want to go on the merrygoround, then by all means, skip the thread.

But Boudicea, no one should have the ability to make you feel bad about yourself. These are faceless strangers (well, with some exceptions) who don't know you. It doesn't MATTER what they think about you.