horse massage book/video

Melody
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horse massage book/video

Postby Melody » Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:52 pm

I have an old book (1980's) by Jean-Marie Denoix. My husband is trying to learn this to work on our own horses. He is not liking this book. Asked for a better one or a video. I checked barnes and noble and there are quite a few. Wondering if anyone on here can recommend a good one. Wasn't sure where to put this question.

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Re: horse massage book/video

Postby Abby Kogler » Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:51 pm

Masterson!! Great videos, great book. So clear and so easy to understand/emulate. Cant recommend it enough!

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Re: horse massage book/video

Postby myleetlepony » Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:35 pm

I very much like Masterson...I'd also look up April Battles on YouTube

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Re: horse massage book/video

Postby PNG_Pony » Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:57 pm

I'll join the choir...I really like Masterson. I've seen great results with it!

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Re: horse massage book/video

Postby Melody » Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:13 pm

Great, I knew I could count on feedback here. I found I could get from his own website the book/DVD/wall chart for one price. Seemed reasonable. If he really likes this he could do a course next year, there was on in Kansas in September. Close enough since we are in Oklahoma.

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Re: horse massage book/video

Postby gypsy still flies » Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:25 pm

I have the Masterson DVD and like it. I also found this book, Beating Muscle Injuries for Horses by Jack Meagher - Hamilton Horse Associates, 1985 to be good also. I actually worked with someone who trainer with Jack Meagher back when I had Gypsy. The technique was spot on for her.

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Re: horse massage book/video

Postby Melody » Sat Nov 21, 2015 5:52 pm

The Jack Meagher is the one I thought I had. I still think we do somewhere. I don't remember buying the other one. I ordered the Masterson book/DVD.Wall chart so that will be a good Christmas present. I hope he really gets into it. The horse I ride the most has a tight back a lot. Last time the chiropractor worked on two horses and it didn't do much for either one.

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Re: horse massage book/video

Postby piedmontfields » Sat Nov 21, 2015 8:10 pm

Another Jim Masterson vote.

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Re: horse massage book/video

Postby Melody » Mon Apr 25, 2016 7:48 pm

So I got the book/video/wall charts for Christmas for my husband. He finally got around to trying this out on one of the horses yesterday. I have gotten chiro and acupuncture before on horses but never massage. Question is, how often can/should you do this and what's the protocol for working a horse afterwards? My acupuncture vet would tell me to go home and work them right away, chiro guy always said 24 to 48 hours rest after an adjustment. He said the book says we can do step one often but he hasn't completely read the entire book yet. Did watch the video several times and is now going back and reading the book closely. So far he hasn't read anything about frequency or working one afterwards.

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Re: horse massage book/video

Postby goldhorse » Tue Apr 26, 2016 2:37 am

Another vote for Masterson. When I started, I would work my whole horse and then let him have the rest of the day off. Now, he's in tune to the program so I might do a few releases on the shoulders, neck, and poll before I ride. I find that the horses quickly learn what's happening and it gets easier and faster with each session. Both of my horses will push body parts at me that they want released. It's really amazing stuff. I don't think you can do it too often.

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Re: horse massage book/video

Postby om! » Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:46 pm

I have found Tom Mayes dvd to be helpful

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Re: horse massage book/video

Postby Abby Kogler » Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:07 pm

Masterson and Mayes for sure. Dr Ridgway also.

You may find that your horse is loopy after a session. I give them the day off, or as was stated upthread, when they are used to it, do some small things before you ride. But they can be in a real fog afterward and I think they need to process the new information.

If you can find a Feldenkrais practioner to work on your horses, do it. That is the most fascinating work I have ever seen.

Jack Meagher started it all with his book. IT is still the classic sports massage book. But Masterson is great.

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Re: horse massage book/video

Postby Red Barn » Fri Jun 30, 2017 1:12 pm

Hey there. Great to see that the bodywork folks are still here!

8-)

My question today is about combining massage with targeted ridden work, which I can't seem to find in book and/or video form.

I have this big, lanky TBX who tends to get very stiff, especially over the long winter break, so I thought I'd try some basic Masterson techniques on him to help him relax into the new season. I'm a total beginner here, but he reeeeeeeally seems to enjoy this so far, and is pleasantly relaxed afterwards.

Thus far I've just proceeded to our usual warm up post-massage, which consists of a brisk walk around the farm's perimeter, followed by big trot loops in an open field, and finally simple lateral work at walk and 20 meter trot circles in the arena.

This guy is basically what's called an "all rounder" in the UK, though I've tried to use sensible dressage principles in all his training. He's twelve, a total sweetheart, and really enjoys his work, so I'd like to do everything in my power to keep him happy. My overall goal for him is straightness and flexibility - preferably sometime before fall rolls around again!

So. Do you all have any suggestions for ridden work, or possibly longe work, for a big, dorky horse that does a little of everything?

Thank you!

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Re: horse massage book/video

Postby Abby Kogler » Sun Jul 02, 2017 3:49 am

You cant go wrong with The Athletic Development of the Dressage Horse by Charles deKunffy. Its clear, its methodical.

I am very impressed with the PK Legerete work I see at the clinics I have been going to. Very methodical and focused on straight and balance always. The horses don't even look like the same horses that started the series and they are happy and relaxed in the work.

Racinet Explains Baucher and all of the Racinet books are good.

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Re: horse massage book/video

Postby Red Barn » Sun Jul 02, 2017 12:55 pm

Hi Abby.

: )

Actually, I have books by ODGs coming out my ears. What I was thinking of was something more modern, like a program that pairs specific ridden exercises with specific massage protocols to address specific issues or problems.

But maybe no such thing exists . . . in which case you should write it yourself!

It really would be very useful, don't you think?

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Re: horse massage book/video

Postby StraightForward » Sun Jul 02, 2017 1:41 pm

Red Barn wrote:Hey there. Great to see that the bodywork folks are still here!

8-)

My question today is about combining massage with targeted ridden work, which I can't seem to find in book and/or video form.

I have this big, lanky TBX who tends to get very stiff, especially over the long winter break, so I thought I'd try some basic Masterson techniques on him to help him relax into the new season. I'm a total beginner here, but he reeeeeeeally seems to enjoy this so far, and is pleasantly relaxed afterwards.

Thus far I've just proceeded to our usual warm up post-massage, which consists of a brisk walk around the farm's perimeter, followed by big trot loops in an open field, and finally simple lateral work at walk and 20 meter trot circles in the arena.

This guy is basically what's called an "all rounder" in the UK, though I've tried to use sensible dressage principles in all his training. He's twelve, a total sweetheart, and really enjoys his work, so I'd like to do everything in my power to keep him happy. My overall goal for him is straightness and flexibility - preferably sometime before fall rolls around again!

So. Do you all have any suggestions for ridden work, or possibly longe work, for a big, dorky horse that does a little of everything?

Thank you!


I do a little Masterson work on my horses as well, but IMO, there is no substitute for getting an experienced bodyworker to pinpoint any issues. The one I use uses several modalities, so she has a bigger "tool kit" than I do to address the issues, and is better at identifying them. She just says to keep up the Masterson, carrot stretches etc. in between and focus on correct work in between our sessions. This is with a horse that had a locked up S/I and one haunch much less developed than the other and carrying that hip low, so definite issues. I do back her in hand most days she gets worked, and the bodyworker agrees with this because it helps her engage her hinds evenly and flex a the SI.

Aside from the body work, since you say your horse is big, lanky and tends towards stiffness, what is his diet? I ask because he sounds like a PSSM candidate. This can be a subtle thing where there isn't muscle wasting, but putting him on a PSSM diet might be worth a shot to see if he feels better.
Keep calm and canter on.

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Re: horse massage book/video

Postby Red Barn » Sun Jul 02, 2017 11:16 pm

Thank you for the very kind suggestions, Straightforward.

I live in the middle of nowhere, though, and I'm sure there are no serious bodyworkers hereabouts. Also, I quite like the bonding effect of doing massage myself, so, if anything, I'd like to learn from a pro rather than hiring one on a regular basis. (Your pro's input on the SI issue, for example, sounds terrific.)

Do you think that attending one of those bodywork clinics advertised on the Masterson site would be a helpful?

My horse is on good, organic pasture and gets organic hay that consistently tests very well, along with the high fat feeds in the Poulin Grains Performance line. He's definitely a hard keeper, and always has been. He's also a happy, forward Thoroughbred type with no history of tying up, so I really don't think he has PSSM. I didn't mean to imply that we're talking about a pathology here, as I'm pretty confident that the horse feels fine.

It's just that we live in Maine, where the riding season is ridiculously short, and I thought there might be a book describing a gymnastic/bodywork program to help my guy get up to speed more quickly in the spring. Neither one of us is getting any younger, I'm afraid, and time just seems to slip away more quickly every year!

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Re: horse massage book/video

Postby Abby Kogler » Mon Jul 03, 2017 3:52 am

Oh, sorry >;->

How about Activate Your Horses Core? And Masterson has a great book describing the muscles used in dressage movements...its a DVD book set and its excellent.

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Re: horse massage book/video

Postby Red Barn » Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:07 am

Hilary Clayton! I'd kinda forgotten about her. Good idea.

I'll look for more from Masterson, too. I also have a book by Mary Bromiley that shows the muscle groups used in various disciplines, which is actually what gave me the idea that there might be some book that provides combination routines that include massage--->then stretch--->then ridden exercises, all to be done in one session.

I tell ya: the world needs this!

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Re: horse massage book/video

Postby Tsavo » Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:21 pm

I have wondered why expert riders don't tend to do ground work for limbering up. I think it is a combination of not having time (having to train so many horses each day) and that they know how to warm up and ride such that it completely fills in for any stretching. Dressage Today has some of this work as explained by people like Hubertus Schmidt. I have noted that 15 minutes of over the back on the bit walking over hill and dale loosens my horse up way more than the groundwork I was doing religiously for years.

My advice is find what you can on H. Schmidt on warm up and correct riding. I am convinced that correct (ridden) warm up and correct riding is the absolute best PT... better than ground work and body work combined. String the bow and your horse will come large, loose, even, over, and out. That is my experience.

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Re: horse massage book/video

Postby Red Barn » Mon Jul 03, 2017 1:40 pm

Well, I'm not Mr Schmidt, so I think I'll persist in my my amateur folly.

Glad your system works for you, though. :)

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Re: horse massage book/video

Postby Abby Kogler » Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:12 pm

Part of the reason why there isn't a how to book with the nice idea you are suggesting might be that some bodywork requires a period of rest/processing/reorganization after the treatment, I made the mistake long ago when I was first learning the Mary Debono work to try to lunge one of the boys after a session. He was apparently in some sort of proprioceptive fog and was all over the map, I felt terrible. So trying to combine the things in to one session might not always be a good idea. With the Meagher work it might not be so bad...ie spasm-relief-increased motion-horse feels better. But with Masterson or Debono, not so much maybe. Certainly not with Mary's work, and I tend to do Masterson work after work. Code3 went to a Masterson clinic so she knows more about that than I do.

I have never found pre warmup stretches which were very popular for a while to do any good regarding performance and now feel that the potential for contraction negates any potential benefit. I think Jim Masterson and Mary Debono and Tom Mayes are really the way to go for long term real structural change; that plus correct development. The Masterson DVD with Betsy Steiner and Susan Harris might be a good one for you.

My very favorite anatomy book for laypeople is How Your Horse Moves by Gillian whatserface. That could be very useful to help you extrapolate the musclees and movement required for the work you want to do with the appropriate Masterson work

I dont have my copy at hand but doesn't Jack Meagher address this a little bit in his little handbook? As in 'this stretch helps this issue'? I may be remembering incorrectly.

I don't do ground work or in hand work to 'limber up'. I do it to supple and strengthen to improve my ridden work. That it can also function as a productive warmup is a bonus.

Regarding the comment that "correct (ridden) warmup and correct riding is better than ground work and body work combined", well. Im sure that our elite riders would be fascinated to read that assessment. Maybe Tsavo could show us the studies that back up that interesting claim. Her clinical trial of one notwithstanding, Id love to see the science.

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Re: horse massage book/video

Postby silk » Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:55 pm

Abby Kogler wrote:I don't do ground work or in hand work to 'limber up'. I do it to supple and strengthen to improve my ridden work. That it can also function as a productive warmup is a bonus.


I love this way of thinking of groundwork, Abby.

RedBarn, Melody, you might like to look into Peggy Cummings' work, Connected Groundwork and Riding. Peggy is now somewhere in Oregon, but most of her time is on the road, teaching people (I think 3 weeks out of 4, most of the year). She has some wonderfully illustrated groundwork exercises. She is also a TTeam practitioner; TTeam was created by Linda Tellington-Jones, who trained with Moshe Feldenkrais. Many of the TTeam and TTouch exercises are wonderfully similar to Feldenkrais. Again, much is out there on the internet, and Linda has several well-illustrated books, so it is very easy for the lay-person to learn.

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Re: horse massage book/video

Postby Red Barn » Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:36 pm

Abby Kogler wrote:Part of the reason why there isn't a how to book with the nice idea you are suggesting might be that some bodywork requires a period of rest/processing/reorganization after the treatment, I made the mistake long ago when I was first learning the Mary Debono work to try to lunge one of the boys after a session. He was apparently in some sort of proprioceptive fog and was all over the map, I felt terrible. So trying to combine the things in to one session might not always be a good idea.

That's an interesting point, for sure, and it may explain a lot.

I've never noticed my horse looking especially foggy after a massage - rather the opposite, in fact - but perhaps that simply proves that I'm not doing it right.

I'll certainly have to give this some thought.

My very favorite anatomy book for laypeople is How Your Horse Moves by Gillian whatserface. That could be very useful to help you extrapolate the musclees and movement required for the work you want to do with the appropriate Masterson work.

If that's the one with the painted horse on it, I think I have it somewhere.
I dont have my copy at hand but doesn't Jack Meagher address this a little bit in his little handbook? As in 'this stretch helps this issue'? I may be remembering incorrectly.

I'll look for this, too.

Thanks!
Regarding the comment that "correct (ridden) warmup and correct riding is better than ground work and body work combined", well. Im sure that our elite riders would be fascinated to read that assessment. Maybe Tsavo could show us the studies that back up that interesting claim. Her clinical trial of one notwithstanding, Id love to see the science.

My guess would be that they simply have pros who come in and do it for them. Back in the days when I actually came into contact with the odd BNT, that's what I noticed anyhow.

(Sorry Tsavo. I don't intend to be rude at all, but, as far as I can tell, "expert" riders bring in a hell of a lot of specialized practitioners - in bodywork as in anything else that improves performance.)

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Re: horse massage book/video

Postby Red Barn » Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:41 pm

silk wrote:
RedBarn, Melody, you might like to look into Peggy Cummings' work, Connected Groundwork and Riding. Peggy is now somewhere in Oregon, but most of her time is on the road, teaching people (I think 3 weeks out of 4, most of the year). She has some wonderfully illustrated groundwork exercises. She is also a TTeam practitioner; TTeam was created by Linda Tellington-Jones, who trained with Moshe Feldenkrais. Many of the TTeam and TTouch exercises are wonderfully similar to Feldenkrais. Again, much is out there on the internet, and Linda has several well-illustrated books, so it is very easy for the lay-person to learn.

Excellent!

Thanks so much.

:)

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Re: horse massage book/video

Postby silk » Tue Jul 04, 2017 6:49 am

You are welcome. The thing I like the most is it "doesn't matter" what discipline, or breed, or age, or goals one might aspire to - CR and TTeam can help, regardless. I love that it is non-biased or non-exclusive, because one doesn't see that very often in any sphere, horsey or otherwise.

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Re: horse massage book/video

Postby Red Barn » Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:45 pm

Hey, Silk, this looks fab!

I'm not finding a great deal of in-depth stuff online, but the snippets I've seen seem ideal. One, for example, talks about a plan to maintain flexibility in an older endurance horse that tends to get stiff in the shoulder. The plan apparently consists of targeted groundwork before the ride, targeted massage after the ride, and looks to be very straightforward and non-woo. (Not a big fan of anything that requires wearing Magical Healing Crystals and listening to whale songs from ancient Tibet.)

Anyhow, it appears to be just the ticket. Thanks again!

Is there one particular book and/or video you'd recommend for a noob?

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Re: horse massage book/video

Postby Abby Kogler » Tue Jul 04, 2017 3:46 pm

Silk! Another thank you!

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Re: horse massage book/video

Postby silk » Wed Jul 05, 2017 1:54 am

Red Barn, is that TTeam/TTouch, or CR? Feel free to link me to the thing you've found. Off the top of my head I am not familiar with the story you've referenced. There is less CR online, but HEAPS of TTeam/Ttouch. Perhaps just more practitioners of the latter than the former? Both Linda and Peggy are well before their time, and both are in their 70s/80s now. Peggy worked extensively with Sally Swift, there are influences from Alexander Technique, etc.

Linda can be very woo-woo, but, you can take or leave that side of it, and still get benefits. That's the beauty of CR and TTeam in my eyes - you can take "just one piece" and see changes. Of course, the more dots you join and pieces you use, the better, but you can start as small and easy as you like and progress from there as it suits you. Both methods focus on taking the time it takes and working with the horse you have today, so the frustration can be that they are "slow", but, I find that the horses truly LEARN what you are teaching them, and so you can have time off and they still know the work, vs more traditional methods where you seem to go backwards if you don't use them consistently enough. I also love that they work with all types of bodies and styles of riding and physical limitations, and still improve function. I've seen it work for countless riders and horses, I just love it.

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Re: horse massage book/video

Postby Red Barn » Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:46 pm

Hi Silk. Your enthusiasm is awesome!

:)

I've only seen Linda Telington-Whosis in passing, so I can't comment yet; here I'm talking about Peggy Cummings.

Her website isn't spectacularly helpful, it's true, but I'm very much intrigued by the Connected Groundwork idea. I like the way the groundwork on the line, with the horse in motion, relates to the bodywork. This makes a huge amount of sense to me. I also like her matter of fact approach, and the fact that she moves the horse around throughout the session, paying a lot of attention to his carriage after each technique is applied. She seems very goal oriented, and apparently thinks like a rider, which I think is great, and very easy to relate to.

Here are a couple of snippets, in no particular order:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6amFQwVcvZo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLMVgYLPPSI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPI8Ig72L3M

These look like they're part of a longer, more complete video lesson, and I'd love to find the book or video set they come from.

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Re: horse massage book/video

Postby Abby Kogler » Thu Jul 06, 2017 1:37 am

You know Manolo Mendez, yes? Another great one.

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Re: horse massage book/video

Postby silk » Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:17 am

Red Barn wrote:Hi Silk. Your enthusiasm is awesome!

:)

I've only seen Linda Telington-Whosis in passing, so I can't comment yet; here I'm talking about Peggy Cummings.

Her website isn't spectacularly helpful, it's true, but I'm very much intrigued by the Connected Groundwork idea. I like the way the groundwork on the line, with the horse in motion, relates to the bodywork. This makes a huge amount of sense to me. I also like her matter of fact approach, and the fact that she moves the horse around throughout the session, paying a lot of attention to his carriage after each technique is applied. She seems very goal oriented, and apparently thinks like a rider, which I think is great, and very easy to relate to.

Here are a couple of snippets, in no particular order:
...

These look like they're part of a longer, more complete video lesson, and I'd love to find the book or video set they come from.


Ahhh yes, tech isn't Peggy's forte. At. All. :lol: :lol: :lol:
She has one DVD, but it isn't really a how-to, more of a "look at what can be achieved with this work." The clips on youtube will have been taken at clinics (I'm sitting juuuust out of frame in at least 3 of them ;) ). I have a gazillion hours of clinic video footage myself, but unedited and far too long to upload anywhere. I also have at least eleventy gabillion clinic photos :lol: There might be some more stuff on her facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/connectedriding/?ref=br_rs

I would recommend her newer book, the hard cover one... it is comprehensive. Plenty of words for the people who like words, photos and diagrams for people who like visual things. http://www.connectedriding.com/home/cr2 ... nd_up.html
There is a similar riding one coming. These things take time, though, so I'm not sure when.

As for the enthusiasm... I have cliniced with Peggy every year since 2007, and spent two months with her as a working student in 2012, and completed the first two Practitioner training courses (only halted due to not having enough interest to run more courses here - cost is prohibitive with too few people, and I haven't yet made the time to go and do more with her in the States). Plus several expos supporting my instructor, who trained with Peggy for quite some time. I love the work, it does so much good for so many horses and riders, it is simple, it is good.

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Re: horse massage book/video

Postby Red Barn » Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:51 pm

Oh, wow - lucky you!

If ever you hear of clinics happening in Maine, I hope you'll post them here. I'll be there in a nanosecond!

I will pick up the new book, but I like the videos too - like when she actually shows how she's holding her hands! - so I'll also keep looking for those. Right now we're having fun with the neck and shoulder stuff (that "Shoulder Delineation" thing is really a winner) but I'd love to find some for the other half of the horse as well.

8-)

Thanks again, Silk. Both my horses really seem to enjoy this approach.

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Re: horse massage book/video

Postby silk » Sun Jul 09, 2017 9:15 am

When you get that book, the exercises *do* continue past the shoulder/front half. :D

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Re: horse massage book/video

Postby Red Barn » Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:12 am

Well, that's definitely a plus. :lol:


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