Tension from injections and robaxin?

[blob]

MM does not do well with her vaccines. She typically gets swelling and soreness. But to make matters worse she also really, really hates them and gets so worked up and tightens her muscles so much she's broken needles before. Obviously when she's so tense not only does the injection hurt more, but it also increases the severity and likely hood of any swelling. So it can be a bad cycle. And gets banimine day of and then bute for the next few days to help with pain and swelling. She also gets ridden lightly after shots to get her muscles moving some and cold hosed.

Well, fall shots are on Monday and I was rummaging around in my first aid for some vet wrap today and the robaxin I have left over caught my eye. And I got to wondering... Would giving her robaxin the day of injections help keep her muscles more relaxed when she gets the injections and therefore lessen the severity? Has anyone tried robaxin for something like this?

[Josette]

My vet gives vaccines in the chest pectoral muscle. There is some swelling and a boobie forms but walking around helps it. I have a similar situation with my guy and must give Banamine and Bute. I'm not familiar with the other drugs you mentioned.

[Srhorselady]

Two of my seniors are on daily Previcox And I’ve never had an injection reaction. However, three of the four are good for injections. My old guy gets an injection three times weekly, but is luckily very good for them. I frequently give them in the pecs since I’m too short to give them in his hip and I don’t want to always give in the neck. The pecs are also good if there is a reaction for drainage. He doesn’t even flinch and I don’t even halter him.

[blob]

MM has had then done in the pecs before. But the current vet does not feel comfortable giving them to MM there because of how worked up she gets. Since she's the one dealing with my fire breathing dragon, I let her pick the spot she feels physically safest.

Josette, robaxin is the brand name for for methocarbamol (a muscle relaxer)

[khall]

Blob does she stand better with a twitch on? I’ve dealt over the years with young horses who violently object to vaccines or IV injections. I quit trying to wrangle them and will either throw a twitch on them or lip cord to make it safer. What I’ve found is that they learn to stand quietly after a year or two using the tools. To the point of being able to give IM injections with no halter on.

You may want to visit some R+ training as well. See if you can change her mind about injections.

[blob]

Blob does she stand better with a twitch on? I’ve dealt over the years with young horses who violently object to vaccines or IV injections. I quit trying to wrangle them and will either throw a twitch on them or lip cord to make it safer. What I’ve found is that they learn to stand quietly after a year or two using the tools. To the point of being able to give IM injections with no halter on.

You may want to visit some R+ training as well. See if you can change her mind about injections.

we can get her to stand with treats and other tactics, but she is tight as a tick and so it's going into hard muscle and there's no way to explain to her that her tension is making it worse. It becomes a bad cycle because then the amount of pain she gets--often sore and swollen for 2+ weeks after and twice she's abcessed--makes it understandable that it's not something she wants to do.

It's less of an issue of giving the shot--we've got that going reasonably well and more about making the injection less painful the day off and the following days. And I'm curious if a more relaxed muscle from robaxin will help. Perhaps not even for the giving of the injection but for the aftermath when she typically holds her muscle tight and stiff (part of the reason I make sure I ride her right after). But I'm not sure if there is a potential downside to giving it? For example, I won't give her a sedative in case she tries to get away and will end up falling hurting herself and/or us. And in general I don't like to sedate for something a horse fears if avoidable.

[exvet]

I personally would not use robaxin for the reason suggested. I would, as khall, suggested use additional restraint and just get it done so that it's quick and as painless as possible. I also wouldn't hesitate to give a tranquilizer/sedative for the reason you're wanting to use robaxin. It makes vaccinating your horse more expensive but much safer for EVERYONE. I also am not a fan of using banamine and bute back-to-back especially in any horse that might be ulcer prone; but, to each his own. I do give bute regularly pre and post vaccine to my 2 hot-house flowers who regularly have reactions to vaccinations. I am also one who gives vaccines in the pectorals to lessen the severity of the reactions. Also, since vaccines are not that viscous and the pectorals are an easily accessible muscle group, I use a 25 gauge 3/4 inch needle. I find that my horses don't even stomp until I'm done because to them it is literally like a fly bite. The needles are fragile so I wouldn't use such in a horse that is already fighting me because I wouldn't want it to break off while injecting, just a word of caution. That being said, doing so really makes vaccinating all of mine by myself a quick, relatively painless task with lessened reactions.

[blob]

Thanks all for the input! Giving the shot isn't the issue. We are able to restrain her--she doesn't even need the twitch, though she won't relax even witg one. It's the after math that's the real issue. We've tried different needles, including smaller and uncoated ones. The reaction happens no matter what.

If no one has used or feels good about robaxin, I won't use it. will just continue to do what I've done in the past. Back to back bute/banimine is vet's recommendation after neither made much difference alone. She's not an ulcer prone horse thankfully, and hasn't ever had them. But I do give ulcer guard as a precaution when I give bute.

[Chisamba]

you could try oral ace promethazine half an hour to 45 minutes before the vet arrives.

[texsuze]

My 29 y.o. retiree doesn't get tense or have any issues with vets or injections, but over the years, he started having injection site reactions and/or overall stiffness, etc. post-injection. I've reduced his vaccination list to a few essential shots, no more. I also stopped giving the "multi-ingredient" (3-way, etc?) shots many years ago. He only gets one vaccine at a time, spaced several weeks apart, in the spring. I've had most success with shots in the pectoral muscle; never give in the hip, and never in the neck any more, since that always produced stiffness and inability to put his head down for grazing

I start daily dosing with banamine paste about 3 days ahead of the scheduled vaccination, not just the day of. I've found it to be much more helpful than waiting till the last minute. I let the vet know how many days my oldster has been getting banamine and the vet always gives a final IV dose a few minutes before the vaccination. I will usually give one last paste dose a full day after the vaccination.

[blob]

I also stopped giving the "multi-ingredient" (3-way, etc?) shots many years ago. He only gets one vaccine at a time, spaced several weeks apart, in the spring.

It's interesting because unlike most horses, MM gets a reaction at every single injection site. Even when it's not a vaccine she blows up from a shot. So, the 3-way is actually better for her--she has one basketball sized lump, instead of 3. But it took us a lot of trial and error to figure this out. We have minimized what she gets and how often she gets what. And she gets the nasal spray for flu/rhino.

[heddylamar]

My older mare, Anzia, gets a huge lump too. She still has a softball-sized lump from the antibiotic injection site that the vet gave her on 7/31. Anz bent the needle. Both the blood draw site and banamine injection are fine, but those antibiotics

When she has a lump like this, both BO and I cold hose, and I lunge her for several days post-injection. Obviously that does little but make us feel less like awful horse people. I tried bute pre- and post-vaccines for several years, but it made no difference.

I give all of her routine vaccines myself, and use smaller needles. There's generally less severe swelling, although the frequently bends those needles too. For Anz, I think the swelling is more often related to tense muscle + trauma v. a reaction to the injection itself (there are exceptions). I don't twitch since that makes her tense, but I've mastered one-handed injections while distracting with a carrot or chunk of apple. Grain does not work.

[Kirby's Keeper]

I used to give Kirby a partial tube of Dormosedan gel. Dormosedan and liquid Ace need to be given about 30 to 45 minutes before the vet arrives. They also need to be given under the tongue to be effective. Worked a treat. Don't need it now since we moved to a different and much quieter barn. He is finally growing up at 22 years old.

[blob]

MM stands well for the shots, so she doesn't need a tranq, it's just preventing the aftermath. She got shots on Monday, she stood like an angel without the need of anything. But she has swelling the size of large grapefruit in two locations on her neck and one of them looks like it might abscess.

[Chisamba]

MM stands well for the shots, so she doesn't need a tranq, it's just preventing the aftermath. She got shots on Monday, she stood like an angel without the need of anything. But she has swelling the size of large grapefruit in two locations on her neck and one of them looks like it might abscess.

the tranq was not for manners but relaxation during innoculation.

[blob]

MM stands well for the shots, so she doesn't need a tranq, it's just preventing the aftermath. She got shots on Monday, she stood like an angel without the need of anything. But she has swelling the size of large grapefruit in two locations on her neck and one of them looks like it might abscess.

the tranq was not for manners but relaxation during innoculation.

Ah, I see, yes. Could be worth trying--would love something that would last that first several hours. Your suggestion of ace might be a good one for fall.