baucher bit?

[blob]

I'm curious to hear from those that have used baucher bits--what kind of horses did you find them best for? What kind of noseband did you use with them? What kind of horses do they not work well for?

I've never used one before, so I don't know much about them, actually. I do know that they help keep the bit steady and that they relieve poll pressure.

I'm considering trying one for RP. He's a sensitive critter and his mouth has been an area where he does a lot of his fussing. His teeth are done nearly every 3-5 months because any time there are even small changes, he is bothered by it. And I'm really lucky to have a great dentist.

I don't anticipate any bit being a magic fix for his mouth sensitivity--I think he needs to get a lot stronger and more confident in contact in general before we have consistency in terms of mouth feel. But if I can help him have that confidence with the right bit, I'd love to do it.

He's currently in a dynamic loose ring french link with a lozenge. He's been an eggbutt french link with a flat middle piece and he's been in a thin kk ultra. The one he's in now seems to be where he's happiest. He goes in a drop noseband at the moment, but he's also been in a cavesson/flash setup. He goes about the same with both nosebands.

Would love to hear people's thoughts and experiences with bauchers (good or bad).

[Flight]

I actually found no difference with Norsey. He very light in the contact and get's closed in his gullet or then sticks his nose right out. The baucher didn't make any difference to his normal snaffle. See if you can borrow one before buying one.
I found him happiest in a mullen mouth and now he's in a myler kinda weird shaped mouth piece, but more like a mullen mouth than a jointed type.
I'm starting to have a collection of bits.. get's expensive.

[Tanga]

I've tried the baucher on several horses, and I, too, noticed no difference with very different horses. I basically always end up in loose ring or egg butt snaffles.

I also never use a drop. I really, really, really don't like the idea of them. I have gotten to a place where I basically don't need a noseband--they are ornamental. Any problem I thought I was fixing with a tighter noseband was fixed with better conditioning. The super fussy, rip the reins out of my hand mare got worse with a tight noseband. When I finally basically made it ornamental, she got happy and finally stopped all of the fussing.

[Flight]

I just use a loose cavesson too thesedays. If I'm not competing then sometimes take them off (less fuss on their faces). If they are opening their mouths then I figure I'm using my hands too hard.

[Srhorselady]

I’ve used a Sprenger B Baucher on several horses with positive results. The first horse we tried it on was my big strong warm blood school master. The horse was a lot more trained and bigger/stronger than I was. He was used to being ridden in a double and with solid contact. At that time I tended to give the reins any time the contact was stronger than I was used to. The horse was a saint but it wasn’t very effective for me. However, I found 4 reins overwhelming so keeping him in the double didn’t work either. He respected the double. We tried the Baucher and it was a great compromise. I eventually improved but the bit worked for both of us. I’ve also used it with an older quarter horse who had been in a curb for years. He was given to me after years as an all around western cow and trail horse. So, of course, I started him in dressage with a French link snaffle (also other snaffle with the same results) and he hated it. Fussy, throwing his head, etc. Trying to steer in that snaffle with him throwing his head was not fun! The Baucher and/or a Mullen worked for him. Head fussiness went away. The Baucher also worked for my sensitive 16.3 thoroughbred. However he also went beautifully in a D ring. I don’t think it mattered to him what bit we used. So I certainly think a Baucher is worth trying!

[Chisamba]

Now as for nosebands. I was using a fairly loose caveson, the SRS clinician advised a drop or flash so I used it for the clinic then took it off. But.. i release, or stroke the neck with the rein in hand as a reward. Well after a stressed flying change I rewarded Kimba with a release and she reared so high I thought we were going over. I stopped and assessed the situation at a halt. I realized there is quite a lot of bit movement on the release, I put the flash on snug enough to stabilize the bit. It was magic. Kimba got softer, quieter, more confident. She doesn't hollow after the change, anyway. I realized falling for the stupid animal ethics anti noseband blurb was not what Kimba likes and that I need to listen to my horse. I put the flash on for Teddy and Karma, but left it off for Emma and Mama. So, I am pro the drop or flash because some of my horses prefer it.

As for the baucher, I have one but do not use it, my young horse Kaira, seemed to prefer it.

[StraightForward]

When Hilda Gurney was here several years ago she said she always starts young horses in a drop. I don't love how traditional drop nosebands fit though, coming low on the cartilage and potentially smooshing the nostrils, so I went for one of the new anatomic designs that still has a strap running below the bit. I can't comment on the Fairfax drop because I never got to use it on Pickle (Rosette), but the Micklem, then PS Sweden Nirak has worked well for Annabelle.

She didn't know anything about contact when I got her, and would duck a lot. What got her going nicely was using the Herm Sprenger Novocontact single-jointed eggbutt for a few months. Eventually she actually got a little heavy, so I switched her to a simple Korsteel curved single joint eggbutt and that seems to be doing the trick.

The Novocontact is a fairly hefty bit though, so not sure if it might be too heavy for RP. There is a long thread on TOB about them; many people had success getting horses to feel more confident and consistent in the contact with them. As a side note, before getting the Korsteel, I tried a double-jointed Novocontact and Annabelle was completely horrible in it, so the single and double jointed seem to be very different to the horse.

[Flight]

That's pretty interesting Chisamba. I know I've read some people like Manolo Mendez has said the flash/drop can help steady the bit and be more comfortable for some horses.
I'm really starting to appreciate just how different each horse (and rider) is.
I rode Norsey bitless yesterday, he's always so funny about his mouth and I was curious to how it would go. He went the same! Just no fussiness with his mouth where I am always being so very careful about my hands. I'm not an anti-bit person but I'm interested enough to keep experimenting with this for now.

[blob]

I start every horse in a drop. I really like them. Sometimes i see them fitted too low. But if they're fitted correctly they are not on the soft part of the nose. They go outside the bit specifically with the intention of keeping the bit steady and preventing jaw crossing. So, they're less about keeping mouth closed.

My question about the noseband, was more really to ask if anyone used a drop with a baucher, or if I tried a baucher, i should use a different noseband also.

I don't know if i can borrow one small enough for RP. but I think dressage extensions still does bit trials, so I can try that!

[Flight]

I think you might have to experiment to see what works best for you both, blob. I've certainly seen them with flash nosebands.