For Tabby (and others) Canadian Elections

[Crisscreek]

For those of us Canucks who have made it over here-what's your take on the current elections?

Advance polling-is there something "hinky" going on? My husband and I were dropped from the voter's list after being on it for 15 years. Elections Canada then told me my polling station was 2 hours (at least) away-across a lake! That has since been changed (I think, still waiting for card).

Now those advance poll lineups with recent changes to the "Fair Elections Act" are we seeing the first signs of voter suppression?

As well, what the heck is the obsession with the niqab? SCOC has ruled on it, and Harper is now making musing noises about not allowing it for federal employees. Do we not have bigger topics to discuss, for example, the TPP, bill C51, and the "anti-union" bill (the number of which I can't remember).

General open discussion points for what I think will be a most interesting election!

[Rhianon]

And yours sure isn't the only story like that, Crisscreek. In my riding they changed the election boundaries so that they now make no sense at all (combining three very different communities with very different needs), and confused the heck out of people. I am loath to say "gerrymandering" but there, I said it.

As for the long line-ups at the advanced polls, my guess is that the system just isn't set up for so many voters. Each station only has one ballot box, and every voter's info has to be transferred by hand to a second sheet and signed. When I did advance voting, the gal doing the job was elderly, slow, and easily confused. (I can say that because I wouldn't have been any better at it for the same reasons!) It was the afternoon of Thanksgiving Sunday, so there weren't a lot of people. But it went VERY slowly.

Ah, the niqab wedge issue. Did a dandy job of reducing NDP's chances in Quebec.

[Tuddy]

Advance polling-is there something "hinky" going on?

I absolutely think so - gut feeling reasoning, but still, I really do think there is something behind that.

And for the campaigning, sheesh, I have never heard, in all my voting life, soooo much trash talking. There are a few federal candidates that make me feel like they are resorting to bullying to get votes.

The outcome will be what it will be, and I am anxious to see who will be the next PM. I know I will make my mark, and I hope that others will make their vote count to.

[Tabby]

There is definitely something"hinky" going on. I got married this year and decided to hyphenate my name so I could get a passport in dh's name to make travel easier. I knew I would have to change my voter registration. So I called them in advance to get the paperwork sent to me. I ended up calling them 3 times with no results. Each time they said it was in the mail but it never came. At one point I contacted the candidates in my riding. Eventually I went in person and got it straightened out. But if I wasn't determined to vote, it wouldn't have happened.

ABC on October 19. The Unfair Election act is enough for me.

[Crisscreek]

Hi Tabby-I knew from the old board you'd show up in the political section at some point!

I too have been appalled at the level of trash talk-and the whole obviously racist overtones coming from the current government towards muslims. Which group will they focus on next? Seriously, do we really need a tips hotline to report "barbaric practices?" Who defines them, and how is this serving any purpose except turning Canadian against Canadian. Dogwhistle issue which did serve it's purpose in Quebec, and distracted the rest of the country from other issues.

C51 (the security bill) is pretty much what really finished it for me. I'd better be careful what I say, who knows, CSIS could end up monitoring me. Should I say anything negative about Northern Gateway, I could be labelled a terrorist. Maybe at that point they'll revoke my Canadian citizenship and deport me back to Ukraine based on my grandmother's heritage. (yes, I'm being just a little sarcastic).

This is after shutting down government libraries, and destroying research documents.

I"m waiting to vote until the 19th-and doing it strategically. Heave Steve.

I also think it's terrible commentary that when elections canada is having an issue with polling, we now all think the government is up to something. Our psyche has changed to the point that we can actually think this. Until the last federal election, that idea would have been inconceivable.

[somantu]

… I"m waiting to vote until the 19th-and doing it strategically. Heave Steve.

Agree with everything you said, but the bold part is my primary objective.
I voted on Saturday on my way home from the barn.

[Rhianon]

I'm also voting ABC. Because they changed the riding boundaries it's hard to know the best strategic vote. Best sources say it is the incumbent, who is a good guy and we'd vote for anyway.

C51, cutting the CBC, and muzzling the scientists. Sheesh.

[Pippigirl]

What does voting ABC mean?

[Pippigirl]

wait..does ABC = Anybody But Conservative???

[Don Giovanni]

yes Pippigirl - ABC = Anyone/thing But Conservatives.
I have never been so confused as to what to do with my vote. The only clarity is that the Conservative incumbent has and will never get my vote. He used to be our alderman and was totally useless then, and actually offensive to some of his constituents, including my father, when they asked a totally reasonable question. The fact that he has consumed the Kool Aid, spouts Steve's talking points, refuses to participate in debates are all further strikes against him. As to the other two primary candidates who might get my vote, one has been virtually invisible throughout the campaign and the other I completely mistrust, albeit for no other reason than observation and instinct.
The one I distrust is running for the party I am leaning toward now, and the invisible one represents the party I most often vote for. Argh... confusion reigns.

[Don Giovanni]

Oh yeah -

Heave Steve!

[Rhianon]

DG--so glad you made it over here! What is it with the Conservative candidates? Our local one didn't show up for debates, wouldn't be interviewed for the local paper. And the Cons were a very close second place here last time--well, in what I riding was last time ...

ETA--If you want to vote strategically to Heave Steve, there are websites you can go to that give a "best guess" suggestion for where to place your vote.

[somantu]

except for words like "riding" and "NDP" you fellas could easily be discussing Australia under a tony abbott led government.

Well, Harper did hire Lynton Crosby as his strategist:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/conservatives-hire-high-profile-australian-strategist-to-reboot-campaign/article26315392/

[Tabby]

Tony and Steve are actually good buddies. The problem with our conservatives is they aren't really conservatives at all - they're the former Reform party which is very similar to the American tea party. The original conservatives collapsed years ago when they dropped to 2 seats after Brian Mulroney. What was left of them joined forces with a couple of ultra right wing parties and called themselves conservatives but really they are quite extreme. The problem is that Canada doesn't have a center-right party anymore so anybody leaning even slightly to the right only has this party to vote for. The NDP have tried to swing right - they are certainly to the right of the liberals these days - but their base is still at the left. I think that's why they are dropping in the polls. True hard core conservatives are just not going to vote for them and their own base is feeling disenfranchised.

One thing that I hope falls out of this election is for the conservative party to redefine itself back to its former "progressive conservative" standing. Right now we are resembling the US where partisanship over rules good sense. All of the parties have something valuable to add and they all should have some input into how things get done. Not the dictatorship we've suffered for the past 10 years.

[carpevita]

The problem with our conservatives is they aren't really conservatives at all - they're the former Reform party which is very similar to the American tea party.

I'm very sorry you have this problem too.

[Crisscreek]

DG-I totally understand your confusion. I've been flopping back and forth. Both the Libs and the NDP have points in their platforms I agree with, and I've voted for both in the past. I know neither local candidate. I've even done a few online quizzes that purport to help you indentify which party you most agree with-and mine comes out 95% Lib, 95% NDP. So no help! I'm now following local polls, and strategic sites such as votetogether.ca and it's looking like in my riding the best bet is NDP.

Tabby-yes, the conservatives certainly lost the "progressive" portion of their name! In my 35 years of voting, I've always been able to see some of the appeal of the party before Harper, even if I never supported them. Never have I seen a Canadian political party (even in the Mulroney years) for which the thought of their re-election actually scares me. I never thought that as a Canadian I would be afraid of my government.

6c-amazing parallels eh? Right down to a lip service apology to our native population, with absolutely no action. No treaty settlememt, no inquiry into missing/murdered aboriginal women, northern population living in third world conditions, denial of their indigenous rights as to what happens on their lands, etc. Actually, I don't think he has a cushy vacation planned, but I do think he has a juicy job waiting for him in some multi-national oil company. He's certainly done enough to sell us out to them.

Not surprising coming for a PM whose leadership and affiliation credentials prior to the reform party included the National Citizen's Coalition and the Northern Foundation-with it's alleged ties to neo-nazis in the US. (See, now CSIS really will be watching me!)

Also found this article from 2004-scary how predictive it was: https://nowtoronto.com/news/the-devil-i ... en-harper/

[Rhianon]

Great summary Crisscreek.

I'm feeling more and more that the whole system is broken. I'm for proportional representation myself. DH thinks it results in stalled governments. Any opinions on this?

And I think Harper has made it clear how much power our system concentrates in the individual of the PM. The senate is supposed to provide some "sober second thought." But we all know how that's going.

I think what our economy needs to get it going is research and innovation. Great article on that topic in the Globe and Mail on the weekend. I'll see if I can find a link.

[Don Giovanni]

hi Rhianon - and thanks
The Conservative candidates all seem to have had their marching orders from their leader - stick to the talking points, don't mingle/knock on doors, don't go to debates, don't put yourself in any situation where you might have to speak off the cuff or actually answer a question. He is a total control freak. If he was a rider, he'd hold the reins so tight the poor horse's lips would be up around his ears. I have never voted Conservative, even when it was PC and I could agree with bits of their platform, but I sure as heck wouldn't vote of this far right extremist hate/fear mongering niqab obsessed creep.

Crisscreek - I have voted both NDP and Liberal also. It has always seemed clear in my mind too, but not this time. The two local candidates are a wash in my opinion, so I've been looking to the leaders. Everytime I think I have it figured out, they same something else that makes me go or or just "are you kidding me?"

I've yet to see a logical explanation for where the money will come from for all the things they are promising, but that's not new at election time I guess. It looks as if the Liberals may have enough of a lead to at least make a strong minority gov't; if I vote NDP am I wasting my vote? Am I contributing to vote splitting that would allow Steve and his Steve-bots to creep up the middle and win? ARRGGHH..... This shouldn't be so difficult.
I've done several of those "which party do you most identify with" quizzes... no help there. oh well... I guess I'll figure it out before Monday.

[Tabby]

I'm using the strategic voting sites as well but my confusion is a little more subtle. Both sites tell me to vote ndp which is fine- I agree with most of their platform and what I don't is impossible any way. But to be honest, I like the liberal platform even more. And I don't like that the ndp have taken to attack ads lately. I almost donated to them but those ads put me off.

My ndp guy is new to federal politics but he's been my city councilor for years so his name is familiar and he should do alright. He's got the most signs in the riding if that means anything. I really would like to vote FOR my choice rather than against the cons but I need to be sure that the ndp guy is secure.

I don't think voting a losing candidate is a waste. In the end they know how many people voted which way and they consider that when developing future policies.

I also strongly support changing the electoral system to something other than first past the post. Trudeau mentioned that early in his campaign that they would examine the other systems. We are in this position now with harper even though only 30 percent of the people voted for him and he has completely neglected everyone else. I like minority governments. It forces everyone to consider all sides of an issue.

[Tuddy]

I've yet to see a logical explanation for where the money will come from for all the things they are promising, but that's not new at election time I guess.

I said this out loud in front of a group of people I was with one day .... Silence ... I was stunned at the fact that no one had considered it. I then pointed out that the money would most likely come from a cut to a program was deemed not as essential, yet very essential to someone who had been utilizing it, which in turn, will become ammunition for the next election. Revolving door.

I am trying to really focus on my riding, as really, that person is my voice in Ottawa. I am so conflicted, I have the weekend to really get my ducks in a row about it.

[Tuddy]

One rumor/theory I did hear, was if Harper was elected, that his own party would actually punt him. That is why they really want him to win this time around as they are even tired of his antics.

[Pippigirl]

One rumor/theory I did hear, was if Harper was elected, that his own party would actually punt him. That is why they really want him to win this time around as they are even tired of his antics.

Wow really? I wondered it if it could happen...

[Pippigirl]

I've yet to see a logical explanation for where the money will come from for all the things they are promising, but that's not new at election time I guess.

I said this out loud in front of a group of people I was with one day .... Silence ... I was stunned at the fact that no one had considered it. I then pointed out that the money would most likely come from a cut to a program was deemed not as essential, yet very essential to someone who had been utilizing it, which in turn, will become ammunition for the next election. Revolving door.

I am trying to really focus on my riding, as really, that person is my voice in Ottawa. I am so conflicted, I have the weekend to really get my ducks in a row about it.

Well I'm not sure where the NDP is going to get their money from (other than raising taxes from big business) but the Liberals did say they were going to run a deficit (in addition to raising taxes from the higher income people).

[Rhianon]

Paying for the promises. Ya. I've read all the platforms. I can't say I know enough to know if any party really can pay for stuff the way they say they can. I wish I understood it all better. Spending to create growth (the Liberal idea) works if it is just your country that's in the dumps. But we've got a global issue here.

About economics. Here's that article on the importance of innovation that I mentioned earlier.

https://secure.globeadvisor.com/servlet ... COBREZNITZ

Here's my personal strategy. I'm going NDP because they say they will bring in proportional representation, and they have the best chance of beating the Cons in our riding. If they deliver on it--next election I can vote Green and the vote will actually count for something. Because if we don't face up to the environmental issue, everything else is for nothing.

[Crisscreek]

Argh! My keyboard switched to french and while fixing it I lost my post! Well, here's the condensed version.

Yup cost of the platform. I know that no party is going to be able to afford all their promises, but i use their platform to decide which parties priorities align most closely with mine. Are they emphasizing social programs vs law and order vs immigration vs whatever. Hopefully when it comes to budget concerns their priorities will reflect this.

The senate/election reform. Well, with a majority (ha, elected with 32% of the popular vote) we really do elect a 4 year dictatorship, i think something has to change. I think there should be a "chamber of sober second thought" role for the senate-but i'd be in favour of elected senators-and perhaps the senate election automatically triggered 2yrs after a house election. Since our parliament is elected rep by pop, maybe senate elected rep by area for balance. Or let's try PR!

I hope the next government (and i hope it's a coalition) reinstates the government funding to smaller parties based on their number of votes. Then i could consider voting green, even if they won't win, because at least more votes gets them more funding and helps them grow.

For now,i'm still worried about vote splitting and Steve-o sneaking up the middle again and calling it a mandate that i have to vote against him.

[Crisscreek]

Oh yeah forgot- what's with advanced polls running out of ballots and turning voters away?

[Tabby]

Argh! My keyboard switched to french and while fixing it I lost my post! Well, here's the condensed version.

Yup cost of the platform. I know that no party is going to be able to afford all their promises, but i use their platform to decide which parties priorities align most closely with mine. Are they emphasizing social programs vs law and order vs immigration vs whatever. Hopefully when it comes to budget concerns their priorities will reflect this.

How true this is. Curiously, I'm not as concerned about this as I usually am during elections. I think that the NDP has the most expensive platform but there are a few things that are going to be outright impossible (dismantling the senate for example) and so they are really non-issues. I also fully expect them to break their balanced-budget promise as soon as they get in and discover that Harper's fake-surplus is indeed a nasty deficit and that previous years' deficits have added up to one helluva debt. So I look at them without those 2 issues - not so bad anymore. I think Trudeau is being the most honest stating that he'll run a deficit, but that will probably be bigger than promised as well. He may raise taxes even more for the rich or lower them less for us but it won't be a huge difference.

The senate/election reform. Well, with a majority (ha, elected with 32% of the popular vote) we really do elect a 4 year dictatorship, i think something has to change. I think there should be a "chamber of sober second thought" role for the senate-but i'd be in favour of elected senators-and perhaps the senate election automatically triggered 2yrs after a house election. Since our parliament is elected rep by pop, maybe senate elected rep by area for balance. Or let's try PR!

I agree with you that there should be a chamber of sober second thought. I'm not convinced it should be elected. I do think it should be non-partisan. Even if appointed, senate members shouldn't be part of any party caucus, nor should they be getting together with any party for secret (or public) meetings. I'm afraid that an elected senate would be similar to what we have now only we can't blame anybody but ourselves.

I hope the next government (and i hope it's a coalition) reinstates the government funding to smaller parties based on their number of votes. Then i could consider voting green, even if they won't win, because at least more votes gets them more funding and helps them grow.

Yes, yes and yes!!!! I completely want that vote funding back! Has either Liberal or NDP suggested bringing it back? I've voted for Green in the past and I would love to again. It feels good when you know you can do something for your party even if it isn't getting them into power. I also think the Greens (and other small parties) are very valuable to Canada and shouldn't be left to die out. Even when extreme or fringe, they have good ideas that shouldn't be lost.

For now,i'm still worried about vote splitting and Steve-o sneaking up the middle again and calling it a mandate that i have to vote against him.

Polls are looking better lately and some of his last ditch commercials reek of disparity but I'm not going to take the chance. Too bad the Jays play on election day - I hope that doesn't keep anyone away.

[Rhianon]

Hey! How about a Conservative/Ford Nation coalition?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada- ... -1.3273204

[Crisscreek]

Heaven forbid!

[Tabby]

Shudder

[Figgy]

I love the parallels between the Canadian experience and the Australian experience, we do have a shared history as well, so its natural, but there are differences to.

it is the nature of political campaigns to promise the world and then when they win the election, complain that the previous winning party cooked the books

[Don Giovanni]

did anyone else's Saturday paper have a full cover, full page front, inside front and back cover Conservative paid political advertisment? In Elections Canada yellow? Made to look like an Elections Canada form?
turned my stomach.

IMHO, the cons will say or do anything to get votes.

FB_IMG_1445261433501.jpg (44.62 KiB) Viewed 34496 times

I think I've decided to vote for the candidate most likely to beat the Conservative incumbent. I can live with the party affiliation, and don't think the other viable alternative party ran a strong enough candidate.

[Crisscreek]

Dg-heard about that on cbc yesterday! Suddenly no longer conservative blue. Smells like desperation to me. Anyway, very interesting day today!

[Rhianon]

Out here in the west we usually feel it's all decided before we get to vote! But this time they say the tight three-way race in BC could actually be the decider. It's all about getting the vote out.

[Don Giovanni]

Crisscreek - this was the front page:

front page.jpg (24.75 KiB) Viewed 34484 times

and this was the inside front and the back page:

back and inside.jpg (40.76 KiB) Viewed 34484 times

[VictoriaB]

Wow, DG, that takes the cake! Take about slimy and misrepresenting. Please let me get back tonight the Canada I know and love.

[Figgy]

I see the Canadians are voting now? which way will the vote go I wonder? One of the interesting comments I heard yesterday is that politics is becoming less about the local and more about the international these days? Will be interesting to see whether or not the Canadian election results support that statement.

[Crisscreek]

Thanks DG, i hadn't seen that. Looks just like an elections canada ad. However......holy red wave atlantic canada! This will be interesting. I love that election coverage began when eastern polls closed as i can actually watch the polls come in. Usually in BC we're blacked out until7pm, and at that point i'd just turn on the tv to find a givernment had already been declared. This is much more fun.

[Rhianon]

Wow, DG, that is something.

And, ya, Atlantic Canada is sure seeing red! I'm also glad they gave up the impossible attempt at blackouts.

Figgy--the most recent polls suggest a Liberal government. But there is a long way to go yet. Atlantic Canada was predicted to go all Liberal. Quebec is going to be an interesting one to watch. And in Canada they say it's all actually decided in Ontario! It's going to be a long night.

[Crisscreek]

So I guess we (BC) gets to determine majority vs minority. Wow. Personally I think I'm rooting for Lib minority with an NDP balance. Then Mulcair and Trudeau would have to figure out how to get along. Regardless, I'm so glad this country voted against fear.

[Crisscreek]

Holy cow Mulcair is trailing.

[Tabby]

It is 10:33 pm. Liberals are leading. I am pleased. I don't think I'll stay up until then end since my main objective is ABC and I think I've succeeded. I have to work tomorrow but at least it will be for wages I earned and my hubby (in the auto sector) won't be out of a job. I can sleep tonight.

[Crisscreek]

Tabby, where do you live that its 1033? I always thought you were on Vancouver Island for some reason. I must have you confused with Rhiannon! Good night. My riding went con thanks to the split. Oh well.

[Rhianon]

Cripes. Okay, I'm glad we turfed the fascist. But our PM is now a private-school drama teacher with a fancy haircut and a ticket to ride. I was so thinking liberal minority with a good NDP opposition.

Our NDP guy got in. Vancouver Island seems to be the last NDP holdout. (I admit, Mulcair didn't run a good campaign.)

I just have to hope the Liberals keep to their promise of election reform--some form of proportional representation.

AND: Can somebody tell me: is it pronounced TRUE-dough or True-DOUGH? I heard both all night. The CBC seems to think the former.

[Tabby]

Lol! I'm in Hamilton so central Ontario. Happy to wake up to the news this morning. I'll take the fancy hair over the helmet head we've been stuck with for the last 10 years. At least we'll look good when we spend billions on fake lake photo ops. That alone is reason to celebrate. Welcome back Canada!

[Don Giovanni]

well that was certainly an interesting evening. I have never seen (and neither has my 90 year old dad) numbers like I saw when I got home just after nine last night and saw the figures from Atlantic Canada. It was something like Lib 28 Con 0 NDP 0 Gr 0 Oth 0! Talk about a sweep

They called a Liberal win shortly thereafter and the only question was minority or majority. I'm with Rhiannon - I thought there'd be a minority, probably a strong minority, but that the Libs and NDP would have to cooperate. Not how it turned out though. I feel badly for Mulcair - it's not so much that the NDP lost on their merits as it was a total repudiation of the vulgarities of the Harper admininstration. I voted for the local candidate with the best shot at defeating the local Con incumbent, rather than necessarily the way I would have voted otherwise, and I"m positive that happened a lot. Mulcair's party's defeat also came partly due to his sticking to his principles re: the niqab non issue. His numbers plummeted in Quebec right after that.

I love this headline on the CBC website this morning - "Trudeau's turn to face that hopey-changey challenge"
'There was another young, electrifying leader once who talked about hope and change with all the gauzy rhetoric at his command, Neil Macdonald writes. Justin Trudeau might want to look at Barack Obama's first two years, to temper those expectations.'

Alors, M. Trudeau - qu'allez vous faire pour notre pays? Nous vous guettons.

Rhiannon - TRUE-dough is the anglophone pronunciation. True-DOUGH is francophone.

[KathyK]

I was happy to read this news today. Congratulations, Canada!

[VictoriaB]

I love this headline on the CBC website this morning - "Trudeau's turn to face that hopey-changey challenge"

Best headline for the win?

(The Australian news website news.com.au had the most direct first paragraph: “The votes are in and Canada has come out of its election with a super hot new leader.”)

[Tabby]

LOL! I have to tell you a story about that. About 2 or 3 years ago, my 83 year old mother and her friends actually joined the liberal party because Justin was coming to town and holding a luncheon for party members. They all got their pictures taken with him. My mom's photo is still sitting in the place of honour while the photos of grand kids have been pushed aside and to the back. The craziest thing of all is I don't even think she voted for him - she just thinks he's cute.

[VictoriaB]

It's funny, we (Canadians) have seen him for so many years that truly, I didn't think about his looks. His age, his experience -yes. Looks, no, not so much. However, on the world stage, apparently, that's what has people talking.

And I hadn't seen this photo.

CRumS6hWUAAszfC.jpg (20.06 KiB) Viewed 34501 times

http://www.cbc.ca/news/justin-trudeau-is-seen-by-non-canadians-as-attractive-1.3279862