My hay delimma

[musical comedy]

This is a vent and I don't expect anyone to have a solution. It would be nice if they did though.

I have a history of having problems with hay. If I told you the lengths I've taken to get nice hay that my horse would eat you probably wouldn't believe it.

The old guy has always been a problem. He just isn't a big hay eater, and with his dental situation, soft hay is needed. I was always concerned about him not getting enough fiber. He's not the problem now.

Last Fall I got in 300 bales of nice 2nd cutting orchard grass. The new mare is a great hay eater. (One of the things I made sure of before buying her). The old guy was happy to finally not be alone, so he started eating hay good too. All was well.

Now it's time to get hay in for the next year. I like to buy enough for a year, because you just never know about the weather.

Hay guy that I mostly use (but wasn't the one I bought from last year) just today delivered me 100 bales of 2nd cutting and the plan was to deliver another 200 in few days. It's nice, soft hay. It doesn't have any smell, but neither does the old stuff I have.

I decided to test out a flake, thinking the mare would gobble it up. No! A sniff and walked away to eat some of the older stuff that was left over.

I came in the house and 3 hours later, still not eaten. They share hay, so the old guy didn't want it either.

I'm stressed to the hilt over this. It's not even about the money. It's about how to get rid of hay they don't eat (btdt many time) and also what to do about supplying for the year.

Some say just do the tough love. Put it down and if they're hungry they'll eat it. Somehow I can't do that. In the back of my warped mind I think there must be something wrong with it.

Over the years I have seen some real crap hay getting fed at some of the fanciest stables and the horses eat it. I just don't get why I always have this problem.

[Flight]

Just curious, how much do you pay for hay?

I have that dilemma about them not wanting to eat it, although at the moment I have to get whatever I can get hold of because of the drought. I'm feeding Teff hay, which I had never heard of.

Anyway, I find if there is enough grass to pick at that my horses tend to choose that over anything but lucerne, especially new hay. I'd give it another day or so and see what they decide.

[musical comedy]

How much I pay depends on where I buy it. A couple years I bought imported hay from the west coast which was extremely pricey. I live in hay growing country, so I mostly get it locally. A 40 pound bale was $6.50 delivered, which I consider cheap. When I got the west coast hay, I paid $3200 for 6 ton.

My horses have access to grass 24/7 if they choose, but they don't step a foot outside in this hot, buggy weather. So, hay is the only forage they get.

I know of Teff but it isn't available anywhere around here. I've heard it is nice horse hay.

[piedmontfields]

Wow, that would stress me out, too, MC. I live in a hay growing area also. In general, I'm lucky that hay sources are quite consistent with their production. However, I do notice that when a bigger change in hay source is made, the pickier horses (mine) do back off eating a bit. They are also less intense about hay when they still have good grass. But their interest does usually shift within a week. My boarding barn usually blends the hay offerings when a change is made.

$6.50 per 40 lb bale delivered would be super cheap even around here (E TN). $8-9 is more typical.

[Tsavo]

My previous barn must have been getting extremely high end hay because they were paying much more than that. I knew they were obsessed with good quality hay but I didn't realize how much until seeing these other prices.

[musical comedy]

I would consider what I bought very nice hay and I'm very picky. The new stuff imo is nicer than the old stuff. I have learned over the years that what looks/smells good to humans doesn't translate to a horse's tastes. I'm just so surprised because my mare is not picky and a glutton. On the way to the ring, she even tries to grab a bite of a weed. She is an easy keeper and too fat, so I wasn't wanting a super rich nutricious hay. This hay is very soft, no weeds.

Yes, the $6.50 is cheap. The delivery distance is only 5 miles. If you calculate what I said I paid for the western hay, it comes out to about $20 a bale. It was second cut beautiful western timothy and my old horse didn't like it.

[Chisamba]

I actually have a solution. Get a good quality hay steamer, gradually teach them to eat steamed hay. Some adore it and some take time, then steam your hay. Steam good hay lightly and poor hay thoroughly.

I do feed probiotics because I naturally assume that good microbes
are depleted along with the moulds etc.

Anyway, it's a pita for a large herd but would be easy for a few.

Highly highly recommend.

People tend to assume I have a minimalist tough love approach to horse care , but I do not. I sweat the details, believe in good science and have horses that were doing poorly in fancy establishments that are thriving in my care.

I think a hay steamer would help your dilemma, and it tends to neutralize changes in hay due to growth and season.

[Flight]

For a 40lb bale, I'm paying $20 now and for top lucerne (if you can get it) is $30. So yes, it is stressful when the buggers wont eat it!!

[musical comedy]

Chisamba, before I got the mare, I tried steamed hay on the gelding. No go! It wasn't one of the fancy steamers, but it worked just fine. The gelding will not touch damp hay. Also, I feed free choice hay and they share. With the steaming, it gets cold quickly, especially in Winter and it gets rancid in summer.

This morning so far Mr. old guy is eating the new hay, but the mare is not. In fact the mare is acting funny this morning. I am a person that probably shouldn't own horses because I worry and fret too much about them.

OMG Flight, how can people in Australia afford that? What do people on a budget do; feed beet pulp or a complete feed grain?

[Hayburner]

I also live where there is beautiful hay and some crappy hay. My old guy gobbled up the soft orchard grass - the price was $6.50 a bale -delivered.

Even though my hay came from the same farm all the time, I always mixed the old batch with flakes of the new. Giving some of the old and some of the new may work for your two.

And yes, you may have to tough love it until they decide it's no different than what they were eating.

[khall]

Get a different type of hay so you can have a mix to feed them. I find that my horses get tired (some don't but a few do) of same old same old. So I keep a couple of different chopped forages available to give them as a treat. If I had easy access to good quality orchard grass or alfalfa or timothy I would buy some to feed as back up but I don't. We grow our own Bermuda hay here (actually Bermuda mixed with crab grass which is difficult to eradicate but we are trying!) so mostly they get Bermuda. That old saying grass is always greener on the other side really applies here to hay picky horses.

[kande50]

Over the years I have seen some real crap hay getting fed at some of the fanciest stables and the horses eat it. I just don't get why I always have this problem.

Send a sample of both the old hay and the new hay off and have it tested, and then if you don't want to deal with the learning curve to figure out what the results mean contact a nutritionist to interpret them for you. What you may find is that the old hay is higher in sugars so is more palatable without necessarily being more nutritious. Or you may find that the new hay is much higher in fiber, so less palatable, but perhaps better for them?

Something else that might help is to just start feeding a pelleted complete feed to meet their nutritional requirements, and then offer hay to meet their chewing requirements. If I had to buy my hay that's what I'd do, just so I wouldn't have to deal with trying to find decent quality hay. "

I have a couple older, tooth-challenged horses who live on the pelleted complete feed in the winter because they quid their hay, which probably means that even if they could eat enough of it to maintain their weight (which they can't), they'd probably be getting way too much sugar and way too little fiber.

[kande50]

We have some nice soft 2nd cut on the wagons in the barn right now, 35lb bales, that I just sold for $4.50/bale off the wagons. It's mixed native grass so not weed free, but I just fed some and they inhaled it. Course they usually get 1st cut so fresh 2nd cut is a treat for them.

[Flight]

OMG Flight, how can people in Australia afford that? What do people on a budget do; feed beet pulp or a complete feed grain?

It's because we are in a big drought so I'd say some people are struggling. I can do a couple of overtime shifts to help me pay for mine. Usually I pay about $12 to $14 a bale and have enough grass that I only have to feed it in the middle of winter and summer.

[musical comedy]

Update.
At 9am I wrote above the the mare was acting funny. She is usually rambunctious about morning feed, and today she wasn't. Her whole demeanor was out of character. She didn't go for hay (the old stuff) after her small grain meal which is what they both always do. She just stood in the stall looking depressed.

I kept going out every half hour or so to see if she was passing manure. She is usually a poop machine. Old horse did two to mare's one pile. She wasn't showing any signs of colic other than the depression. I went to take her temperature (for the first time) and met with extreme resistance. She really resented that thermometer and I was afraid of getting kicked so I abandoned that. I called the vet as I do for every little thing .

Vet came and temp was normal. Gut sounds and gums ok. She had done one big manure ad 12 and then did one at 2 when the vet was here. Her manure was moist as it always is. She's a good drinker and she dunks having copied that vice from the old guy. Vet said we may as well tube with fluids so we did. Gave her a banamine shot and pulled some blood just for a baseline.

Of course I was told the standard advice they give for colic horses; i.e. restrict hay for a while. I couldn't hold out long for that, so I gave her a small amount of soaked speedi-beet which is full of water and easy to digest. Later I gave her a bit of hay and she wanted it. I decided to ride her which the vet agreed would be a good idea. I finished riding a little while ago, hosed her down and gave her some hay which she wanted.

So, I think that her turning her nose up at the new hay last night could have been because she didn't feel well. The question is why didn't she feel well.

Of all horse health things there can be, other than a catastrophic accident, colic is my greatest fear. If you've ever seen a bad one that ended in death, you understand why.

[Flight]

Hoping she's ok MC! It's so worrying when they're not quite right. I agree about colic, it's horrid when it's fatal.
Sounds like she's ok for now, hoping she stays that way.

[DJR]

I hope she gets better quickly. Colic is always scary.

No advice for your hay situation, just lots of sympathy. And, I now feel even more fortunate that my hay guy is literally 4 km down the road from me and supplies me with delivered hay every year. This year I got about 2600 bales of quality 1st-cut, and it only costs $3.50 CAD per bale, delivered (but I stack it). The prices you guys pay in the States is so expensive! I’m so glad I live where hay is good & cheap.

[Ryeissa]

Hmmmm...senior feed has hay mixed in as a temp solution...? or hay cubes?

any news?

[MysticOak]

I can tell you what I do, because I have a picky mare, and I have an IR horse. Luckily, we have a supplier the next county over who also does hay testing. He's got hay fields all over northern CA. So when he's got several different areas harvested and baled, I go pick up 2 bales of EACH hay. And we do taste testing... Sometimes I have to go a few times as more hay comes in. I put out a flake of EACH hay, and let my picky mare tell me which she prefers, and we do that several times until I'm sure she'll eat it... Then I order about 200 bales. It is time consuming - it is about 3 hours each time I go pick up hay, but I do end up with hay the princess will eat.

For an old horse (I have one of those too - she is picky, and 29), I get hay pellets - alfalfa timothy mix, and soak them with beet pulp... It is more expensive - except there is NO waste.

Not sure if either of those ideas will work for you?

[kande50]

For an old horse (I have one of those too - she is picky, and 29), I get hay pellets - alfalfa timothy mix, and soak them with beet pulp... It is more expensive - except there is NO waste.

I feed one of mine a pelleted complete feed, and while I haven't figured out exactly how much it costs, I don't think it costs a whole lot more than buying hay. We put up our own hay, but just sell what she would have eaten and buy her pelleted feed instead.

Fortunately, she has a good appetite even though she's old, so eats whatever is put in front of her. She just has dental problems that prevent her from being able to chew enough hay to maintain her weight.