Virtual shoppers, interested in another one?

[Snork]

One more voice into the josette/bip/musical comedy chorus. The good ones go quickly.

Which makes it even more important to really know what you want. For example, IF you are considering an Iberian horse, make sure you actually get along with that particular type of temperament.

[scruffy the cat]

Well, I did enquire about the palomino mare!

[Tsavo]

The good ones go quickly but the best ones never hit the ads and go by word of mouth. What you see in the ads are horses whose connections either did not want them or couldn't afford them.

[khall]

Maybe?

http://www.rcmp-f.net/news/horse-auction/

[Bip]

The good ones go quickly but the best ones never hit the ads and go by word of mouth. What you see in the ads are horses whose connections either did not want them or couldn't afford them.

Ideally, we would all be PMing her word of mouth prospects. Links are nice, but you are exactly right about the best ones never hitting the ads.

[Rosie B]

Scruffy - I went to that general area (where the palomino is) when I bought Bliss. Over a span of 4 days we looked at about 45 youngsters. Mind you, I was looking for a 1-2 year old, but there a number of very reputable breeding operations in that part of the world. Windswept farm, Sunny days hanoverians, Parkwood stables (where Fabregas is standing), the Pangaea farms where Harvard stands etc. If you call around you could line up a trip to look at a whole string of youngsters.

https://www.pangaeafarm.com/sales-horses
http://www.parkwoodstables.com/topic/riding-horses/
https://www.windswept-farm.com/broodmares

[Ponichiwa]

Well, I did enquire about the palomino mare!

Yesssss. Join us!!

[scruffy the cat]

Scruffy - I went to that general area (where the palomino is) when I bought Bliss. Over a span of 4 days we looked at about 45 youngsters. Mind you, I was looking for a 1-2 year old, but there a number of very reputable breeding operations in that part of the world. Windswept farm, Sunny days hanoverians, Parkwood stables (where Fabregas is standing), the Pangaea farms where Harvard stands etc. If you call around you could line up a trip to look at a whole string of youngsters.

https://www.pangaeafarm.com/sales-horses
http://www.parkwoodstables.com/topic/riding-horses/
https://www.windswept-farm.com/broodmares

This is very helpful! I have now found at least 4-5 youngsters (between 4 & 6 years old) in that area but haven't yet gotten to the farms you linked to. It's amazing the number of good breeders in that area- they seem to have a lot more quality stock for more reasonable prices than in the US, and the exchange rate plus no sales tax makes getting one from that area very appealing. I'm trying to firm up some plans but hope to get up there in the next week or two.

[StraightForward]

This is very helpful! I have now found at least 4-5 youngsters (between 4 & 6 years old) in that area but haven't yet gotten to the farms you linked to. It's amazing the number of good breeders in that area- they seem to have a lot more quality stock for more reasonable prices than in the US, and the exchange rate plus no sales tax makes getting one from that area very appealing. I'm trying to firm up some plans but hope to get up there in the next week or two.

How exciting!

Not sure if you plan to drive, but I found out that I needed a special card from my insurance company, and had to pay extra to get it overnighted so I could leave on schedule. I did have to show it along with my passport card at the border. This might be common knowledge but everyone I mentioned it to here didn't know about this, so thought I'd mention it.

Please keep us posted!

[musical comedy]

Not sure if you plan to drive, but I found out that I needed a special card from my insurance company, and had to pay extra to get it overnighted so I could leave on schedule. I did have to show it along with my passport card at the border. This might be common knowledge but everyone I mentioned it to here didn't know about this, so thought I'd mention it.Please keep us posted!

I didn't know it. You mean if I want to drive up to Ontario I need a passport?

[Rosie B]

Also, I didn't list Sunny Days Hanoverians because they don't have anything for sale that fits your criteria, but that's where I bought Bliss. Kathleen is a very good breeder, super knowledgeable about the lines, and probably knows everyone so if you had questions or were looking for more places to look, she might be able to help you.

If you do go the young WB route, I would HIGHLY recommend doing your homework on the breeding to understand what you're getting into. The different lines are known for different things. Some sires are known for producing amateur friendly horses with great brains. Some are known for producing horses that are temperamental and unpredictable. Kathleen is a great resource for understanding those types of traits.

Also, FWIW, the German Hanoverian Verband produces a stallion book yearly that contains detailed information about each of the sires and the traits they pass along. Trust the Germans to have it organized, specified, and documented to that degree. lol. I know that's probably not relevant info to you at this time, but I found it interesting.

[scruffy the cat]

I did know about different sires/dams passing on different temperaments. I also know about them passing on different soundness levels and after what I've gone through this is veryveryveryvery important. So far, I have been very specific in my emails to be quite clear about my amateur needs- I will NOT have access to professional training more than one lesson a week so I cannot have a horse that will require a lot of hand-holding from a pro.

I didn't know about an insurance card- what sort of insurance? Life insurance? Health insurance? I've traveled extensively and never needed proof of insurance so I'm curious.

[Rosie B]

MC - when we (Canadians) cross into the US, we are required to show passports. Going from the US into Canada passports are not required but are strongly recommended. If you don't have a passport, you need other documentation that shows proof of American citizenship such as a birth certificate plus a photo ID.

[scruffy the cat]

Passport, I have. Insurance card? Well, it depends on what insurance we're talking about.

[StraightForward]

Passport, I have. Insurance card? Well, it depends on what insurance we're talking about.

I called my insurance company to ask if I needed to add insurance for driving my personal vehicle in Canada (I think it was Progressive) and they said nothing needed to be added, but I needed this specific liability insurance card that needed to be an original from the company, so it wasn't possible to print at home like the usual proof of insurance cards.

Travel medical insurance is pretty cheap - might not be a bad idea if you'll be riding a lot of young warmbloods.

[StraightForward]

I didn't know about an insurance card- what sort of insurance? Life insurance? Health insurance? I've traveled extensively and never needed proof of insurance so I'm curious.

Liability insurance for driving your car across the border. That's why I asked if you were driving, but I can see how that was unclear.

[scruffy the cat]

I have such wanderlust that I keep my passport is always in my handbag. I don't know where I think I'll be going but it makes me happy to think I *could* jump on a plane at a moment's notice.

I will double check on my health insurance. You're right about being covered if I'm going to ride some young horses.

And sorry, I read the part about driving but I didn't know if you meant a horse trailer. I'm easily confused anyway.


Rosie- do you have a link to that yearbook from the German Hanoverian Society? While I know some pieces of some of the lines, it would be nice to have more information.

[scruffy the cat]

Passport, I have. Insurance card? Well, it depends on what insurance we're talking about.

Given current circumstances, I don't think I'd want to leave the country without a passport. Just sayin'.

Maybe when I go to ON to look at horses I could just get lost and have to stay.

[redsoxluvr]

Scruffy, if you are thinking of getting something in Canada, you should check out the RCMP sale. My trainer emailed me their flier.
They are selling <>40 horses, most of Hanoverian/Oldenburg descent of various ages. There are stringent requirements for
markings and size for horses to be part of the RCMP ride, so they sell the ones who have too much or not enough white, wrong color, etc.
I know bidding is online, but I am not sure of the other specifics.

[Rosie B]

Regarding the book on the sires - I inquired from my breeder friend where she got hers and she said they are no longer in print. I was looking through her copy when we went on my horse shopping trip to ON in 2012 which is how I knew of its existence.

She got her copy off the www.hannoveraner.com online store, which she was unable to find when she went looking for me yesterday, but it might be worth a look?

[scruffy the cat]

Thanks for asking Rosie. Fortunately, there are lots of online options for checking things out. The folks over at COTH have lots to say about temperament and soundness of many sires, so that gives me a starting point. I'm an old timer at reading online forums so I know perfectly well to read trends in opinion and not take one person's word as gospel.

[Tsavo]

Welp, there is a horse on FB who is half Clyde and looks light as a feather so I think it is possible for that mare to be half draft.

I am just saying my 1/4 draft is heavier than both of them combined. LOL

[Josette]

This looks like a nice youngster with a good start under saddle. May be a bit far - but I like her videos.

https://www.warmblood-sales.com/HorseDe ... serID=8375

[PaulaO]

Chestnut mare!

[scruffy the cat]

Thanks, Josette. I tried a couple of mares and as I suspected, it's not a good fit. Thank you for thinking of me, though.

[Josette]

ok - I'll keep an eye out for any geldings.

(I've only ever owned geldings. You have to click with either mare or gelding.)

[musical comedy]

Thanks, Josette. I tried a couple of mares and as I suspected, it's not a good fit.

I'm interested. You can tell that the bad fit is because it is a mare, and not just the wrong horse? If you were to try several horses and not know their gender, would you be able to tell which one is a mare? I'm a mare lover, because I just am able to bond with them better than with geldings. That said, I haven't noticed any difference in riding geldings versus mares.

How is your horse search going Scruffy?

[khall]

What I have found is that mares tend to be more workman like (at least all the mares that I have ridden have been) where as my geldings tend to have focus issues, they are busy minded or playful creatures compared to my mares.

Out of all the foals I have bred raised and trained, Rip was my first colt/gelding to keep and ride all of my others have been mares/fillies. He by far has been the most challenging one I have kept and ridden. HIs dam by far was the easiest I ever started and has an incredible workman like temperament, go figure.

Good luck on the horse hunt! Did you have a chance to go look at any of the Iberians yet?

[scruffy the cat]

Mares communicate differently than geldings. Or let us say, the mares I have ridden in my life including the 2 I tried in the past couple of weeks. So when I get on a mare it feels like I don't speak their language. It adds a new kind of stress into the whole relationship that isn't all that enjoyable to me. I feel certain the mares feel the same way about me and don't enjoy having me on them either. Somehow I communicate better with a gelding. So I am very jealous of those who do speak "mare" but sadly, I'm not one of them. And yes, the communication is so different that if I was blindfolded, it would be immediately obvious what I was sitting on.

I've tried 5 horses in the past couple of weeks. One was so fabulous I made an offer but he didn't pass the vetting. I'm still getting over that one. He was a perfect fit in every way. Except the, er, health thing. I have more feelers out so eventually I will find one.

[scruffy the cat]

I haven't had a chance to look at any of the Iberians yet but I might get to soon.

[khall]

I'm sorry about the no go on the horse PPE! That is heart breaking for sure, but better to know before hand.

[scruffy the cat]

Yes, definitely heartbreaking- he had a really great personality as well as movement and ability... My dog died fairly suddenly last Saturday too so it made for a pretty sad week.

I'm eating a lot of ice cream to cope.

[Josette]

I'm so sorry to hear about your dog. Also, I totally understand the disappointment over passing on the horse - been there too.

In the past, I've ridden a few mares that were lovely temperament and we got along fine. I just ended up with geldings - but I do agree some of them have been more challenging personality wise. On hind sight, I probably would have done better with a mare. You know what type of temperament you click with best.

[Hayburner]

Scruffy - So sorry to hear that your beloved dog passed.

When I was looking I refused to even look at a mare - In my boarding over the years - I found the mares to just not click with me...maybe I gave them a vibe that I wasn't a mare person..LOL....Loved my heart horse who was a gelding. I did part lease a mare that was very sweet and easy going - I only rode her for a couple of months but she semi-changed my view on mares. But, I still didn't want to own one!

Low and behold a friend talked me in to just going to "look" at a mare. I was standoffish with her - I didn't want to like her simply because she was a mare. BUT, she was the perfect size for me, her temperament at the time was super - and she passed her PPE.

I did end up buying her - yes, I've had many struggles but deep down, I love this mare! She has many good points and is very affectionate, but she can also be hell on wheels...thank GOD for Regumate....LOL..

I know these comments probably won't change your mind - I just wanted to share that I too didn't want a mare, but the RIGHT mare changed my mind! I wish you much success in finding a new partner.

[scruffy the cat]

I actually am happy to keep trying mares. Just because things haven't clicked in the past doesn't mean they won't in the future. BUT, I am learning to tell the seller in advance so they don't think I'm kicking the tires.

Thanks, all.

[Rosie B]

I have always been a gelding person, but I rode a mare exclusively for 7 years and was in love. That being said, my current horse is a gelding. The first time I rode the mare I could hardly get her to move. She was in heat and was *severely* offended at having a stranger plopped on her back and being made to work. But we got through that in the first handful of rides, and then we got along great. I had weekly lessons for years and then leased her for years and together we went from training level to schooling (and showing) third level. We could have gone further but finances and other things didn't permit.

Sometimes I think with mares you need to earn the privilege of having them work with you which can sometimes take time.

[Xanthoria]

Oh gosh, the horse and now the dog? Poor you

[Snork]

I've had and ridden good geldings and I've had and ridden good mares. Because so much of my interaction with the horses in my life is on the ground, I prefer mares because they just seem more interested in people. They let you know where you stand, and if you find one you bond with (which can take time), it's really cool. I love that feeling of "my mare." And the ones who don't like you and you don't like them, just move on. You only need one . If I were shopping again, and I don't think I'll get a chance in a long time, my strong preference would be for a mare.

But mare or gelding, first and foremost, get done that "speaks" to you. If you are anything like me, and I think you are, doing otherwise is a recipe for annoyance and heartbreak not to mention a huge waste of money on so many levels. My perfect on paper, real life jerkface gelding taught me that lesson, at a a huge $$$$, not to mention time and opportunity cost of missing out on having a horse I actually would actually enjoy seeing.

Now I have a new rule - if I am shopping and my first impression of the horse is "it's a horse" it is not a horse for me. I want one that I walk up and think "omg, this animal is just absolutely beautiful." I don't care if, by conventional standards, the horse can't possibly be beautiful because it is missing a leg and has two heads, if I feel like it's beautiful, we proceed, if not, we don't.

[Beorn]

What snork said!

I'm probably a mare person; at least, mares where I am keep trying to insist that 'We' have 'A Thing' together. Awkward, though most of them realize (now) that I pretty much only ride my gelding. Although to be fair, my gelding is far more demanding and emotionally needy than his (four-footed) mother.

The problem, I guess, is that when you show up to try a horse, you don't get a chance to develop a relationship, if that's what that mare wants, before deciding to buy. It'd be different if the mare were already in the barn or you'd spent time with her.

Anyway, I'm sorry for the terrible things that have happened and hope that you find A/The One to work with on your goals together.

[piedmontfields]

The "it's a horse" reaction is telling. I remember shopping and going to look at one perfectly nice fellow and my DH was like "Why? He looks dull compared to what you like." As soon as I saw him in person I agreed. And passed on the horse.

While it is hard for many horses to show themselves to their future person during a brief interaction, I was impressed my beloved mare did this. I only saw her one day for at most 90 minutes before arranging to buy her. At the end of our interaction, she put her head on my chest, exhaled and relaxed for several minutes The owner, who had only had her for a few months, was very surprised, as the mare was quite stand-offish with her. The mare wasn't wrong and neither was I.

[scruffy the cat]

Welp. I'm seeing something that's way outside my normal box tomorrow and then something more within my box on Monday. The Monday horse ticks a lot of my boxes but I worry that he's overpriced. They said when they told me about him that the price was negotiable. I don't even know what that means and it puts me in a weird spot. Because I think the price they asked for him is too high but then again I might be being ridiculous. He's just a WBx rather than a full "let-me-brag-about-my-Sandro Hit-black-horse" kind of thing. But if he can get to Third or maybe beyond, and is sound and sane, even if not world-beatingly fancy, should I even care? I want my medals but I also want a horse that I can have a great time with.

[khall]

Good luck scruffy! Jingles that one fits the bill and passes the PPE. Can be a bit of a slog horse shopping for sure.

[musical comedy]

Welp. I'm seeing something that's way outside my normal box tomorrow and then something more within my box on Monday. The Monday horse ticks a lot of my boxes but I worry that he's overpriced. They said when they told me about him that the price was negotiable. I don't even know what that means and it puts me in a weird spot. Because I think the price they asked for him is too high but then again I might be being ridiculous. He's just a WBx rather than a full "let-me-brag-about-my-Sandro Hit-black-horse" kind of thing. But if he can get to Third or maybe beyond, and is sound and sane, even if not world-beatingly fancy, should I even care? I want my medals but I also want a horse that I can have a great time with.

"just a WBx"? I care about breeding to a point. I've owned several full european WB's and several WB x's. With one exception, the WB's were no fancier or better movers than the x's. That said, I do care about what the cross is. Mine were all TBx's and I think that is more a positive than a negative.

When it comes to pricing, my thinking probably differs from others here. There are two situations. One is that we truly have a limit to how much we can spend on a horse. The other is that we have a limit to have much we want to spend on a horse. My feeling is if the money is available, and we find a horse that ticks all our boxes, we should get that horse even if it costs more than we'd like to spend or think it's worth. I think it's really really hard to find the right horse, and when we do, I think it's ok to pay through the nose for it. Had I done that 40+ years ago, I may have been a much better rider than I am today. Always trying to find bargains and ending up with horses too green or talent limited does not help one's riding and they are too hard to resell if they don't work out.

[Tsavo]

And it's not just the price of the horse. If I bought a truly pricey horse I would insure it. And insurance is not cheap.

For my last horse, I don't want to worry about a huge loss or having to buy insurance. I am going to find a horse by word of mouth where the owner knows the horse will have a home for life just like my present horse. He could have gone much farther with a better rider but I am not sure how far.

I have the dream of getting a PMU like entity and trying to take it far like Flynn, the PMU baby draft QH cross who made it to GP and got his mommy her gold with the first two tries at GP. That is my dream... paying next to nothing and getting a gem because I am looking in non-standard places.

[KathyK]

If you do Facebook, there are several pages devoted to dressage horses for sale. There is usually a wide variety of horses advertised. There's a huge range of prices, ages, levels of training, height, breed, etc. I put up an ISO post and found many good possibilities, including the horse I bought last month.

[Tsavo]

I thought of doing an ISO but as soon as someone posted the horse it is no longer a horse who hasn't been advertised! Actually I am just kidding but I suspect the people who post about horses are posting horses that are elsewhere being advertised.

I could say ISO a horse who has never been advertised and people might be afraid to respond LOL.

[scruffy the cat]

Tsavo- I have a friend who got a PMU horse and is now very, very successfully showing Third!

And yes, I always insure. It's how I have a slightly bigger budget this time because Broadstone paid me my mortality benefit.

KathyK- thank you. Yes, I do look at the FB groups. Er... several times a day. (Where several = really far too many)

Thank you all for your input. I see the horse on Monday. We will see. I saw one today who was a total fruitloop. So cuckoo I got off after 3 minutes of going backwards and generally melting down. I don't need that. But poor horse.

[Tsavo]

Tsavo- I have a friend who got a PMU horse and is now very, very successfully showing Third!

PMU babies rock. I have a small concern about doing anything to support that heinous industry, though.

I saw one today who was a total fruitloop. So cuckoo I got off after 3 minutes of going backwards and generally melting down. I don't need that. But poor horse.

I would not necessarily walk away from that. I would get an expert opinion and then if they thought the horse was salvageable I would offer one tenth the asking price.

[mld02004]

If you do Facebook, there are several pages devoted to dressage horses for sale. There is usually a wide variety of horses advertised. There's a huge range of prices, ages, levels of training, height, breed, etc. I put up an ISO post and found many good possibilities, including the horse I bought last month.

An ISO Facebook post also how I found my last horse a year ago. The seller was a breeder who doesn’t really advertise (doesn’t need to as they seem to sell like hot cakes). They were not really dressage folks so probably not really on my radar, horse was broke but not really started in a particular discipline.

[scruffy the cat]

I would not necessarily walk away from that. I would get an expert opinion and then if they thought the horse was salvageable I would offer one tenth the asking price.

You might not but I would. I've already owned a horse that scared me and since there are so many other horses out there that don't scare me, I'll leave these quality fruitloops to those that have the ability and desire to work with them!