Let's sweat some! July/August goals and progress thread

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Moutaineer
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Re: Let's sweat some! July/August goals and progress thread

Postby Moutaineer » Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:30 pm

Footing at that particular venue is actually really good, so I can't blame that :)

I'm inclined to think a combination of tension and overly long feet. No swapping at all at home yesterday after a farrier visit, but the pivoting in the TOH I fear may be a new learned "thing." We'll have to go back to doing them larger so he has to step round and not avoid the difficulty and re-learn what he is supposed to do.

My barn situation is rapidly turning into a soap opera. I need to decide whether 10 minutes from home vs. 30 is worth it for the level of unavoidable drama. Laddie is happy and comfortable and well cared for there, but I'm not. The barn where we are holding the clinic this weekend has an opening so I will scope it out while I am down there and see what I think.

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Re: Let's sweat some! July/August goals and progress thread

Postby piedmontfields » Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:26 am

Argh, that is annoying, Moutaineer. Good luck. While there are mini dramas that come and go at my barn, I am grateful that the overall vibe is one of cheerfulness + engineered efficiency and attentive care.

p.s. I take it Walker is healed and feeling good if he is going on walkabouts??!!

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Re: Let's sweat some! July/August goals and progress thread

Postby khall » Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:20 am

Glad Laddie is better after his pedicure! I cannot imagine going 7 weeks during the summer months between shoeings!! Our horses are done every 5 weeks during the summer they grow so fast here in hot humid and lots of grass Georgia.

Blob I hope RP comes sound soon.

Chisamba sounds like your clinic was a very good experience. I am glad you found someone to work with you enjoy. Both you and Kimba look great!

I have a bit of brag on Cedar, in her second year of showing ever she is doing well at the FEI/GP levels with 3 horses that are qualified for regionals, 2 at GP and one at Intermediare 1. She also broke 70% at GP freestyle and is learning so much on riding both the tests and freestyles. She is continuing to branch out as well, doing bridless work still and WE/garocha. Pretty impressive for a young trainer IMO. I really enjoy working with her with all of my horses. She has been very well received here when I host her for clinics.

It has been brutal here with the heat and humidity which is making it difficult to get very much done. I've worked on line a bit and then move into the barn aisle by the fan to do in hand work. Working half steps to medium and half steps to canter with Rip. His movement in his hips have really changed over the last couple of years. Has way more swung to him which is lovely to see. Getting as many as 5 clear diagonal piaffe steps with Rip in hand and he is offering SW under saddle. Also playing with RB one handed serpentines (trying to ride him like a Lusitano per Cedar:)

Gaila has shown she is a very good lunge horse for riders to learn on so she is staying! Also have a Western saddle to try out from a friend to see if I can be comfortable in it maybe show her WD.

Been on Joplin just a couple of times. She is still just such a fun easy filly to work with. Her in hand work is so good!

We leave 9-1 for Portugal!

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Re: Let's sweat some! July/August goals and progress thread

Postby musical comedy » Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:44 am

Khall wrote:Also playing with RB one handed serpentines (trying to ride him like a Lusitano per Cedar:)
That is wonderful how well Cedar is doing. She is apparently very talented, but JP gets a lot of credit for training her too. Is she a one size fits all training type though? I mean, all horses can't been ridden like Lusitanos.

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Re: Let's sweat some! July/August goals and progress thread

Postby khall » Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:02 pm

Of course JP gets much of the credit and Cedar definitely does credit him for his instruction and for allowing her to ride the horses she is showing. The one GP horse Orion is one JP trained, the other Zorro is the one Cedar trained. Cedar has put in the work though to learn from JP and now is branching out into showing which is another set of skills to develop but with JP's mentorship.

As for one size fits all training, it is good dressage training with an emphasis on correct biomechanics and using the exercises to improve the horses. All horses can be trained to be lighter to the aids for those who are like Rip who are not so light in the foot:) Just thinking about having him respond with lightness like a Lusitano does help me in riding him. So why can't horses be trained to be lighter and more like a Lusitano? Now this work started years ago with Mark (Mark's book is Lessons in Lightness) and teaching the horses through their development to be lighter to the aids. I firmly believe that the emphasis on the lateral work that both Mark and Cedar has helped Rip to be more supple and elastic in his movement, this big beefcake of a horse can absolutely be a light ride now. It's interesting to me now in working with Joplin to see the differences you find with different breeds. For example the TBs are light like a Lusitano, more ability to be light of foot, the full WBs like Rip and Gaila not as much or Juliet the TB/Perch, yet through this training that started with Mark and continues with Cedar the horses can and do learn that lightness.

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Re: Let's sweat some! July/August goals and progress thread

Postby Chisamba » Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:52 pm

Not all horses can be ridden the same way. Which is what I understood MC to ask. Having the same goal is not equivalent to riding the same way.

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Re: Let's sweat some! July/August goals and progress thread

Postby khall » Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:35 pm

chisamba I did not explain myself very well, when Cedar said ride Rip like a Lusitano I took it to mean expect him to react in a similar way, lighter to the aids and lighter of foot. Not that I would literally work him the way a Lusitano would be worked. Joplin and Rip are very different horses to ride/work. That is why I was explaining what my expectations were and development of the horses I get to play with is. I am lucky to have several different types of horses to work with and compare. You learn so much from each of them! Yet I strive to have a similar feeling under me within reason. Juliet who is long backed with straighter hind legs and heavy front end struggles with engagement, Rip with his neck conformation has been tricky to get lighter in the shoulders/lift of the sling, Gaila is so much easier, has better balance than Rip because she has a better neck set but is not that forward thinking of a horse, Joplin is fun because she has a motor, you put her into trot and she just ticks on (the WBs not so much). But I strive with all of them for them to react to aids with lightness and have their balance as forefront in my training even though we come about it differently with them all to some degree.

Stay cool all! and happy riding.

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Re: Let's sweat some! July/August goals and progress thread

Postby PhoenixRising » Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:37 pm

Phoenix ended up getting an unintended week off. Big mistake. We took about 3 steps back and I'll likely spend the next week getting her back in a good place. She isn't being naughty at all, no bucking or spooking, just tense. I'm sure due to too much pent up engergy but... very, very tense. :roll:
Next time, I'll pay the trainer to ride or lunge her. I didn't mean for her to get 6 days off... at all.
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Re: Let's sweat some! July/August goals and progress thread

Postby Chisamba » Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:02 pm

Khall i agree, same goal, but adjusting to each personality and physical ability

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Re: Let's sweat some! July/August goals and progress thread

Postby Flight » Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:41 am

Yep my horses are different...
I'm winning somedays, not so much some others... :shock: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Let's sweat some! July/August goals and progress thread

Postby Chisamba » Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:05 am

Flight do you mind if I ask, what do you do to let him know that is not particularly appreciated?

I personally prefer to discourage bucking and or rearing.

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Re: Let's sweat some! July/August goals and progress thread

Postby Rosie B » Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:58 am

Wow Flight that’s quite a buck! I’m assuming that’s from a change?

Chisamba are you going to be posting the photos your friend took? If so I can’t wait to see them.

We had a good lesson last weekend. We worked on the new standard of gaits in both trot and canter. He’s definitely getting stronger but building consistency will be key. :)

https://youtu.be/HwqDXi-GzuI
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Re: Let's sweat some! July/August goals and progress thread

Postby Flight » Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:37 pm

Chisamba wrote:Flight do you mind if I ask, what do you do to let him know that is not particularly appreciated?

I personally prefer to discourage bucking and or rearing.


I'm usually just trying to get my bum back in the saddle! It is a leap more than a buck and when he's trying to do a change and I've hung onto him too much or something. It really is more about him trying to manoeuvre his body than anything else. I thought I'd figured out how to fix his late changes, but nope.

Looking really good Rosie :)

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Re: Let's sweat some! July/August goals and progress thread

Postby Kyra's Mom » Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:04 am

I haven't been in a much of a mood to ride lately. I don't know why. I love to spend time with her but riding just hasn't moved me much in the last couple weeks. I was able to get a regular shoe on my left foot today 8-) . I still can't get my paddock boot on but will keep trying every few days. It will be much better to ride in the paddock boots to get some ankle support and a bit of stiffness. The only other shoes that are a go are athletic/tennis shoes. I am more than a bit protective of the bionic foot and they aren't the best for riding and the cam boot is just darned awkward.

I have been a long time member of Karen Rolhf's video classroom. She puts up several videos a month and if people don't know who she is she was a GP dressage rider that up and went and worked with Parelli for a year :shock: . However, not liking the way most of the horses went (carriage and energy wise), she came home and developed her own program. It's roots are in 'regular' dressage but she incorporates a lot of NH concepts into them and does a lot of ground work as well as mounted work. Well I watched a couple videos called Silly Horse Tricks. They aren't so much "tricks" as somewhat unusual tasks. Like putting her feet in a bucket/tub, going sideways...on command, touching a ball. I can see that the basis actually is clicker training but she does not use a clicker. Anyway, I could see some utility of trying this with Kyra as one problem I have always had with her is for her to wait for me to ask something of her. She often thinks she knows what I want and if she is really confused or upset, she will just throw out everything she knows hoping she will come across the one I want. Not so great for relaxation or any hope of a decent outcome.

So we started out with two tasks that I thought would be successful...the bucket and the sideways. She was a star. Karen usually uses a big rubber tub so there is nothing to injure them (I used a 20 gal rubber tub). It took about 5 minutes to have her place both front feet...when requested...in the bucket. We also started on hind feet in the bucket but that is a trickier proposition. They have to maintain alignment and are doing it by feeling as they can no longer see the bucket and most horses don't like stuff banging around their hind legs. She got one hind foot in and stood so we ended that exercise on that positive note. The sideways was a piece of cake as I have always done LY and sideways in my in-hand work but she did it quite readily with me at a bit of distance (maybe 6 feet). Now Karen does it at liberty. I know, in the arena, she will leave me at some point so to have success and to keep the horse with me, I used a very light lunge line I have. It was cool as she was doing the sideways with complete slack in the line. In the round pen, I might get away with liberty but in the arena, if things get harder, she usually quickly expresses her opinion that she would rather do her own thing so I do use a line. Maybe some day at liberty? I really liked the exercises. They made her think and she was focusing on me really well AND waiting :D . Physically, we worked on alignment (straightness) and she had to lift her legs higher than usual. When I released her in trot, she had a very nice active stretchy trot with good relaxation. It also gives her brain a break from routine arena work. I like to switch things up and if her recent nice work with SF is any indication, it hasn't seemed to hurt a thing.

Flight...your user name is very appropriate :o .

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Re: Let's sweat some! July/August goals and progress thread

Postby greenholmeshandy » Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:32 am

Just an update and request for advice please. Shandy has damaged a hind suspensory ligament where it branches around the fetlock. She was sound in walk, lame trot. She has had three months box rest with catraphon and shock therapy treatment. Vet scanned her Friday and was very pleased with how it has progressed, just a miniscule bubble of fluid in damaged area where as before scan was black where ligament should have shown up white. he advised riding 20 mins per day at walk working up 5 mins extra per week. I asked about turnout. He said not a good idea with the field's here as v steep, Rocky and wet.

I showed him the lambing field which is manage size, Flatish and yard owner had said I can use for rehab. He was fine for her to go out provided quiet. Ride her 20 mins and she was as always foot perfect amazing as not ridden three months. Turned her out and she went catering of bucking and kicking. Slipped on a bit of hard flat soil and injured area has puffed up again. I was I tears. Bandaged her and checked last night and it had gone down. So back to square one. Poor pony. I have since been informed that people usually don't turn out until horse is working under saddle in canter. I'm really stressed as it's so similar to what happened with brychen, he wrecked a tendon, long box rest only to have a short time before he died of collic.

Not sure what to do other than keep in, hand walk and pray a lot. If she doesn't come sound to compete my options are to buy another horse to compete in which case she will probably have to go, either on loan as a brood mare or to a retirement livery. due to my job I need to have horses on full livery. Luckily her son has done phonomely well showing so I do have people interested. Sorry to be so gloomy only realized how fab she is now I can't ride her.any advice on this type of injury welcome.
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Re: Let's sweat some! July/August goals and progress thread

Postby Chisamba » Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:00 am

I do one or the other, if I stall rest and hand walk, i do not turn out for a year, gradually increasing the walk time and then adding trot until complete heal.

If I am going to turn our I do not put them in a stall I keep them in level turnout with a quiet companion and give them a year, I bring them in to cold hose, and will use walking under saddle gradually increasing.

I think unfortunately your choice was the least helpful scenario. Resting horse til it thought it was well and turning g it loose to reinjured is the least useful . What to do now? Ultrasound to see how severe the reinjury is reassess.

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Re: Let's sweat some! July/August goals and progress thread

Postby blob » Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:59 pm

It's hard when horses have a lot of stall rest because when you do turnout even the calmest horse will go a bit wild after so much stall time. It's common for horses to reinjure themselves this way and it can make getting on top of the injury very hard.

I know people who have been successful at getting quiet turnout after long stall rest, but they used ace and tapered off it very slowly over the course of weeks. And I'm not sure that would work for every horse. If the damage is not too bad, you could try this.

Chisamba is right that the only thing to do is ultra sound and see what kind of damage was done.

I'm sorry you're going through this, it can be so difficult.

With my pony's injury, I made the decision to not do stall rest beyond the first few days. Instead he goes out in a small space alone during the day (other horses are out at night). Because he never had a long period of being cooped up, he's been quiet in his turnout. I know a vet would prefer stall rest, but sometimes you have to make decisions that you think are best for you and the horse long term. I'd rather he have 9 months of healing outside than 6 months stall rest and risk reinjury when he was ready for turnout.

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Re: Let's sweat some! July/August goals and progress thread

Postby greenholmeshandy » Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:42 pm

Well I rode her today as leg seemed okay and I can tell better at walk mounted if she is off or not. Seemed sound but vet will be called tomorrow. It's really difficult as we don't have a small turnout area to use 24/7 just the sheep fold for short times. We have about a month and a half until winter turnout fields are used which she won't go on - basically they are sides of a small quarry. I'm reconciled to hand walking and riding till 100% sound. Thank God for insurance, Bill is £3k already... Will let you know what gemt says
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Re: Let's sweat some! July/August goals and progress thread

Postby StraightForward » Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:15 pm

Oh gosh, I hope Shandy is OK, and is able to go back to work for you. She seems like such a lovely pony. I don't have any advice, just commiseration.
My mare re-injured herself just being turned into a 40x12ft pen this spring after seven months of rehab (original injury was a coffin fracture, and now she has a DDFT injury, but the coffin bone is healed). Vet says it's new, but I think it was lurking and happened with the turnout and reset the clock. I anticipate that she won't be allowed anything larger than her 16x16 stall and equal size run until she's back close to full under saddle work. It is a long and frustrating process to be sure - yesterday marked 10 months for us. :(
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Re: Let's sweat some! July/August goals and progress thread

Postby StraightForward » Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:16 pm

Flight, that pic is quite worthy of being turned into a meme. Not sure what, but I'll have to think on it.
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Re: Let's sweat some! July/August goals and progress thread

Postby exvet » Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:41 pm

My empathy to all those dealing with injuries, both horse and human. Putting life and progress on hold is always stressful imo. I just got back from a week in Mexico and two weeks off of riding. Yesterday I rode both Junior and Ace and both resumed their 'posts' rather well. This morning we took them out for a relatively short trail ride and both were more than happy to go trekking. So no real progress to report; but, I did mail in the entry form for a schooling show that will be held the end of next month at our large show venue (where the big Arab show is held annually). The show is going to be judged by a USEF 'S' judge. I've entered 1st level test 3 and 2nd level test 1 as a trial run for the recognized show in November. I hope to get constructive feedback. With one more schooling show in October to polish things off before the real deal in November, at least for now, things seem to be on schedule. My biggest hitch right now is getting my mother's move to the retirement facility finalized this month and selling my one horse place which my daughter and her boyfriend are supposed to be moving out of next month. Unfortunately I just found out that he's dealing with some major health issues that may be throwing a wrinkle in plans, my finances and ultimately my schedule. We'll see how it all pans out - could be worse.

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Re: Let's sweat some! July/August goals and progress thread

Postby Ryeissa » Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:59 pm

I moved barns! whew....My horse was a champ and excited to get going. I HATE moving, it has nothing to do with the horse, its just stressful.

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Re: Let's sweat some! July/August goals and progress thread

Postby Flight » Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:00 am

I'll share the video of that screenshot, it doesn't look anywhere near as dramatic as the pic! The pic makes me laugh. I just seem to get thrown around, I need to fix my riding :lol:

https://youtu.be/V64t4pYlu4o

Yesterday I had a tshirt on under my vest, today I'm not venturing outside - back to the depths of winter. I'm getting new stables done, so the horses have no shelter at the moment, but they are still very fluffy.

Greenholmeshandy - so sorry to hear that your pony is injured! I hope she heals up and you can work out what's best for her turnout.

Moutaineer, meant to say sorry you had a not so good show. It's so hard to have everything right. It make it more amazing when it all comes together, but I've had quite a few disappointing classes when you know you can nail the stuff at home. There is so may moving parts.

Kyra's mum - I enjoyed teaching my horses spanish walk as something else to do and you learn more about your horses when you do things like that, I found.

Healing vibes for everyone's horses that are on the injured list.

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Re: Let's sweat some! July/August goals and progress thread

Postby musical comedy » Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:25 am

Flight wrote:I'll share the video of that screenshot, it doesn't look anywhere near as dramatic as the pic! The pic makes me laugh. I just seem to get thrown around, I need to fix my riding :lol:

https://youtu.be/V64t4pYlu4o

Imo, you don't have nearly enough impulsion to be asking for a change.

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Re: Let's sweat some! July/August goals and progress thread

Postby Flight » Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:30 am

musical comedy wrote: Imo, you don't have nearly enough impulsion to be asking for a change.


Probably not, which is why it's not really a buck. He's just trying to do as I ask.
I struggle working this out largely on my own.

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Re: Let's sweat some! July/August goals and progress thread

Postby musical comedy » Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:45 am

Flight wrote:Probably not, which is why it's not really a buck. He's just trying to do as I ask.
I struggle working this out largely on my own.
Why do you have to do it on your own? What is wrong with having a pro put the changes on the horse. Is it a pride thing?

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Re: Let's sweat some! July/August goals and progress thread

Postby Flight » Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:53 am

No, not at all. It's finding a pro I like to be able to do it.

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Re: Let's sweat some! July/August goals and progress thread

Postby mari » Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:36 am

Flight wrote:
Chisamba wrote:Flight do you mind if I ask, what do you do to let him know that is not particularly appreciated?

I personally prefer to discourage bucking and or rearing.


I'm usually just trying to get my bum back in the saddle! It is a leap more than a buck and when he's trying to do a change and I've hung onto him too much or something. It really is more about him trying to manoeuvre his body than anything else. I thought I'd figured out how to fix his late changes, but nope.

Looking really good Rosie :)


Any ideas of discouraging this would be GREAT :lol: I think Flight and I sit the same leaps and kicks for FC attempts.

I'm not sure how to discourage Odin. For a very long time (and I mean nearly 2 years), he would NOT attempt a change at all under saddle. Like no reaction whatsoever. So then when we finally got him to at least try (huge kicks up behind), we couldn't punish him. Now he will do a clean change maybe 20% of the time, the rest are like Flight's picture. If it's an unasked-for change, which we have a lot of at the moment, I calmly bring him back to walk with no praise or fuss, and just attempt the exercise again, and usually that works. But that process does nothing at all for the acrobatics, it will just stop the attempt.
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Re: Let's sweat some! July/August goals and progress thread

Postby blob » Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:13 pm

musical comedy wrote:
Flight wrote:Probably not, which is why it's not really a buck. He's just trying to do as I ask.
I struggle working this out largely on my own.
Why do you have to do it on your own? What is wrong with having a pro put the changes on the horse. Is it a pride thing?


I don't want to put words in Flight's mouth. But I imagine for some of us, it's also about learning. I've had a pro put changes on a horse or had horses that already had changes on them and not only is there nothing wrong with that, but it was an important part of my education. But I also have the desire to not only learn how to ride a change, but also how to train a horse to do changes. And I imagine there are others who also feel the same way. Right now, I am trying to teach MM changes (with help from my trainer on the ground) and i know that if i handed the reins to my trainer we would have had clean and reliable changes probably months ago. But my biggest goal with MM is to learn how to train a horse up the levels, even if that means it takes longer, even if it means I have to un-do some mistakes I make along the way.

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Re: Let's sweat some! July/August goals and progress thread

Postby musical comedy » Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:18 pm

blob wrote: don't want to put words in Flight's mouth. But I imagine for some of us, it's also about learning. I've had a pro put changes on a horse or had horses that already had changes on them and not only is there nothing wrong with that, but it was an important part of my education. But I also have the desire to not only learn how to ride a change, but also how to train a horse to do changes. And I imagine there are others who also feel the same way. Right now, I am trying to teach MM changes (with help from my trainer on the ground) and i know that if i handed the reins to my trainer we would have had clean and reliable changes probably months ago. But my biggest goal with MM is to learn how to train a horse up the levels, even if that means it takes longer, even if it means I have to un-do some mistakes I make along the way.
Obviously you can do what you want, but each failure your make is training the horse to do things wrong. Also, no all horses are capable of doing well what their owners want them to do.

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Re: Let's sweat some! July/August goals and progress thread

Postby Chisamba » Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:53 pm

mari wrote:
Any ideas of discouraging this would be GREAT :lol: I think Flight and I sit the same leaps and kicks for FC attempts.

I'm not sure how to discourage Odin. For a very long time (and I mean nearly 2 years), he would NOT attempt a change at all under saddle. Like no reaction whatsoever. So then when we finally got him to at least try (huge kicks up behind), we couldn't punish him. Now he will do a clean change maybe 20% of the time, the rest are like Flight's picture. If it's an unasked-for change, which we have a lot of at the moment, I calmly bring him back to walk with no praise or fuss, and just attempt the exercise again, and usually that works. But that process does nothing at all for the acrobatics, it will just stop the attempt.


well, i would simply keep the reins short and discourage the huge pull down in the neck, that would encourage the horse to understand that even if i am asking for something with the leg, the connection should remain honest. if the horse is strong enough to take rein, i would only let one rein go, and put my fist into the neck and elbow into my ribs of the other rein, so that there was self imposed consequence to the horse. would probably take the time to flex and counterflex in the neck before asking to get the neck really supple before , i might also ask for some lateral work in preparation, a little travers to set the horse up for success. I try to train to set the horse up for success, so that they are rewarded by the correct response, and do not find a way to reward themselves for the incorrect response. I do not actually know Odin or Flights horse so my response would be dictated by what i know about the horse too.

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Re: Let's sweat some! July/August goals and progress thread

Postby blob » Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:15 pm

musical comedy wrote:
blob wrote: don't want to put words in Flight's mouth. But I imagine for some of us, it's also about learning. I've had a pro put changes on a horse or had horses that already had changes on them and not only is there nothing wrong with that, but it was an important part of my education. But I also have the desire to not only learn how to ride a change, but also how to train a horse to do changes. And I imagine there are others who also feel the same way. Right now, I am trying to teach MM changes (with help from my trainer on the ground) and i know that if i handed the reins to my trainer we would have had clean and reliable changes probably months ago. But my biggest goal with MM is to learn how to train a horse up the levels, even if that means it takes longer, even if it means I have to un-do some mistakes I make along the way.
Obviously you can do what you want, but each failure your make is training the horse to do things wrong. Also, no all horses are capable of doing well what their owners want them to do.


Sure, yes, every ride trains the horse. But I also think in the scheme of things it's also important to remember mistakes are ok, as long as they are not harming the horse. Maybe my horse never learns passage because I can't get it together. That's ok. That just means we never have passage (this is just a hypothetical example). And I think working with a trainer on the ground ensures that I'm not pushing my horse beyond her capabilities. Even the best riders in the world had to learn somehow and I doubt they did so without making some mistakes along the way.

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Re: Let's sweat some! July/August goals and progress thread

Postby Dresseur » Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:08 pm

My two cents on when it's time to have someone intervene (note I'm not passing judgement on anyone here, as one who wants to learn and do it myself, I get it). So, when the training problem you are confronted with has the potential to escalate to the point where someone can get hurt, or if it puts someone in a position to have a knock-down, drag-out with the horse in question, I consider that time to call in a pinch hitter. So, late changes can be fixed... ideally before they become confirmed. Bucking in changes can also be fixed, but if the horse is escalating and getting really gratuitous, you have to keep in mind what it could potentially take to fix it, and will a professional (who you admire or want to work with) want to ride through that, or will the people who don't mind riding through that fall into the "yahoo" category and do more harm than good? Because bucking through changes (as far as I know and have seen) is something that you have to ride your way out of, groundwork doesn't solve it, and the more confirmed it is, the longer it takes to fix it.

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Re: Let's sweat some! July/August goals and progress thread

Postby Flight » Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:08 am

I see it pretty much how Blob has said it. Plus cost. It's very expensive to send my horse to a trainer, plus my other horse wouldn't be happy on his own at home.
I had help with my other horse as i was having regular lessons and I sorted his issues out during those lessons. This is harder not having the regular lessons to work through it.
Videoing is fine, but it's after the event when I can see that I'm doing it wrong. I'm not sure about anyone else, but you think you are changing something in a big way, but when you watch it later... hardly at all!
I'm not riding for the olympics here, if it takes a long time it's not the end of the world and while it does cause confusion and stress for the horse I try not to do it too much.

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Re: Let's sweat some! July/August goals and progress thread

Postby exvet » Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:59 pm

I've pretty much taken the approach of Blob and Flight for many, many years. I am at a point in my life, however, that time is precious. What that means is this time around, because it will likely be my last, I will keep my mind open to the idea of a proven trainer whom I trust putting on the changes if Junior struggles with the concept due to my timing et al. That isn't to say I won't introduce them and see if the light bulb goes on easily. If it does then I'll continue to forge ahead on my own. I'm fortunate in that I've had a few prior to Junior who I did plow through and managed my mistakes/shortcomings as they were revealed. Junior's also fortunate because of those blessed souls he will not suffer those same mistakes. As I age, though, my timing is likely to be affected so we'll see. My goal is to take this horse (welsh cob) to grand prix. He has what it takes and I do not intend to waste time, energy and needless miles if there is a struggle due to my riding. I figure I'm old enough to swallow my pride and adult enough to recognize that sometimes those extra miles down the wrong path shaves time off the window of opportunity which I can no longer afford.

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Re: Let's sweat some! July/August goals and progress thread

Postby Moutaineer » Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:37 pm

Ugh GHH. Yes, I'd be keeping her stalled and handwalking until she's back well and truly under saddle, and then only a very small space that she can't get up a head of steam in--in the past I've set up a 24ft square or so space with pipe panels, or taped of part of their turnout. If she's getting stupid about it, I'd do some better living through chemistry, also.

It's really not uncommon for them to re-injure for one reason or another part way though rehab, so don't panic yet. I know Walker did when we were rehabbing his front suspensory. Usually, it's not as bad as the first injury and resolves more quickly, but it does act as something of a reminder that this is a longer process than any of us would like it to be!

Good luck and let us know about the new ultrasound.

So, the Mette clinic was a great success. Everyone made improvements and everyone wants to come back next time... I'm still processing all I learned in my rides--thank goodness for my dear husband and his willingness to stand and video my lessons! A lot of it was about position and all in the quest for straightness and correct bend, in preparation for the changes. My left leg seems to have developed a life of it's own...

Laddie was a rock star, such a patient horse with me fumbling around trying to get it right. He also felt very sound and very forward and willing.

It's always interesting putting theory into practice. There's really no one true path that works with every horse and every rider, and we all have our challenges to deal with.

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Re: Let's sweat some! July/August goals and progress thread

Postby piedmontfields » Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:23 am

Flight wrote:
musical comedy wrote: Imo, you don't have nearly enough impulsion to be asking for a change.


Probably not, which is why it's not really a buck. He's just trying to do as I ask.
I struggle working this out largely on my own.


Yeah, it does not look "bad"/scary on video. In fact, I'm pretty sure my mare looks like this when I ask without enough oomph. :oops: I agree with MC that you need more impulsion/power. For my sticky mare (short back, nervous), it is way easier to get the good change with a powered up canter (that is not an extended canter, but it's like a collected on the verge of medium canter or like one stride medium-change).

I totally get that we work with our choices (time, money, theory/trainer preference).

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Re: Let's sweat some! July/August goals and progress thread

Postby chantal » Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:04 am

Mikey is fat and happy. We were gone for half of the past 3 weeks and he was ridden twice when I was gone. His bellah is huge and he's lazy. Kind of a nice change, temporarily. We did a long trail ride today and he was wonderful, even played with a few tiny obstacles. I just love him, but back to work it is! He gets really down in the right shoulder when he's out of shape. The trail riding and trotting and cantering in the fields will help. So excited to get back to lessons (only one week off from them) but I'm amazed at how out of shape he is relatively speaking. He does get in shape quickly so I guess it's reasonable.

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Re: Let's sweat some! July/August goals and progress thread

Postby Chisamba » Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:35 am

My ride today on Kimba started out beautifully and then went downhill, which means that as a trainer I fucked up. I did my best to right the ship and finish well but I'm sad.

In the better news column, my other rides felt good.

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Re: Let's sweat some! July/August goals and progress thread

Postby Flight » Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:04 am

Moutaineer - glad you had a good clinic, you could share some screenshots from the vid? Maybe don't share any moments like I do ;)
Chantal, Mikey sounds like me, I get out of shape fast :roll:
Chisamba, I hate that feeling of a bad ride. It haunts you until the next good one. It's helpful if you have others to ride and they go well.

Even though I do regret posting my pics/vids, the feedback is helpful and I need it! Added more impulsion but kept it as collected/short as I could and we are sooo close. If I add impulsion and a bigger stride we get a 20 foot late behind leap. He gave several clean changes and a few leaps but nothing that unseats me and I suspect I was always a bit timid riding him because his responses can be so dramatic, but he's ok with me now. He doesn't try and run me through the fence if I tell him not to pull my arms out etc.

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Re: Let's sweat some! July/August goals and progress thread

Postby Dresseur » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:22 pm

Please don't regret sharing! Everyone sees something different depending on their experiences, and I personally think that it's good for people to see the realities of training and learning. It's not always easy or pretty. Keep slogging on, it'll come!

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Re: Let's sweat some! July/August goals and progress thread

Postby Ryeissa » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:27 pm

you can always send photos /videos by PM, that is what I do.

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Re: Let's sweat some! July/August goals and progress thread

Postby kande50 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:22 pm

Dresseur wrote:Please don't regret sharing! Everyone sees something different depending on their experiences, and I personally think that it's good for people to see the realities of training and learning. It's not always easy or pretty. Keep slogging on, it'll come!


There's also that pesky perception thing that causes us to think a ride is substantially "better" or "worse" than the previous one(s), when in reality there wasn't a whole lot of difference between them simply because substantial changes don't very often happen that quickly.

And then there's always the extinction burst, in which the horse thinks he knows what he needs to do to find the reward/release, so tries harder and harder to produce that particular behavior until he finally realizes that wasn't it and he needs to try something else.

Extinction bursts sometimes happen right before they get it, so they aren't always a bad thing. They're not the best thing by any means, but if the horse has somehow made the wrong association then we do sometimes have to work our way through the extinction burst before he'll offer another behavior (that we can then reward and shape into what we wanted in the first place).

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Re: Let's sweat some! July/August goals and progress thread

Postby AmityBee » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:29 pm

Flight wrote:Even though I do regret posting my pics/vids


Please don't! I really enjoy watching your videos. I like the way you ride and train(ed) your horses. And I flat out admire the way you handle the critisism. I couldn't do it. I mean, seriously, I think you have proven that you know what you're doing. We've seen it because you are not afraid to show people.

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Re: Let's sweat some! July/August goals and progress thread

Postby piedmontfields » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:56 pm

What AmityBee said!!! And you will get this on the BIg Horse :-)

One day it will not be 95 degrees and I will drag out the soloshot again! (I hate riding in the sunny arena when it is this hot.)

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Re: Let's sweat some! July/August goals and progress thread

Postby khall » Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:27 pm

I third please don't quit posting videos/pictures! I really enjoy what you share, the good the bad and the ugly. We've all been there!!

It is hot piedmont! Took our DS back to college Saturday and when we drove down our driveway coming home it was 100 F. Brutal. A bit cooler after the T storms move through with the pop ups, but humid when they are building.

I am trying to keep everyone going some, had to break down and put 3 in grazing muzzles, too much grass with too easy of keepers:/ Except 2 of the 3 are getting nasty rubs even with the fleece protectors argh. Filly had a bit of a hiccup end of last week. All of their feet were overgrown and just horrid, even though they were just at 5 weeks. She got sore from being soft soled and the shoes overgrown and was lame for a few days RF. Farrier could not find anything, pulled films Monday have yet to hear how they look but she is sound as of yesterday, so hoping was just one of those things. Farrier had to go up a size on her front shoes. A bit worried about my trip and leaving all here, have some who can lunge Gaila and Joplin but no one for Rip, LOL! He's too much of a challenge at times, dang him. My old barn help was great and I trusted her to handle him no issues on line but she has a full time job now and had a nasty ankle injury last fall that is hobbling her, don't think she could help anymore.

Some good updates here!

Stay cool and happy riding!

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Re: Let's sweat some! July/August goals and progress thread

Postby Chisamba » Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:12 pm

Flight in trying to be helpful, not critical, i think it would help to add a quicker stride not a bigger one. That said, you are already doing better changes than Kimba, so I might not be helpful at all!

When I struggle with changes I usually analyse what us going wrong, back off the changes and fix the problems in simpkwcterms, then approach changes again..

For example, kinba us dropping her shoukder to change and pushing through the rein, so I am working on slowing the shoukder in pirouette, and maintaining elastic contact in simple changes, and uphill in half pass. Once u have those three to a much more sophisticated degree, I'll ask for changes again. My goal being not to teach bad changes.

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Re: Let's sweat some! July/August goals and progress thread

Postby Flight » Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:04 am

Everyone is helpful, and I do read and think about everyone's advice. It's just a bit of a long process with me, what I'm feeling doesn't always equate to what's happening when I go back to watch it.
Yes, definitely a quicker, shorter more active stride seems to be the best.
Dresseur, I've gone back and re-watched what you sent me a while ago, and that is helping me more now.

Great idea not teaching bad changes!!! If I can advise anything, it would be that :lol:

edited to add from my ride just now. So here's another pic to shame myself with and entertain you lot :roll: :lol: Not pretty, but that's definitely a clean change (wipes brow)

I worked travers with c-w-c trans and also this on a circle to help me get him shorter and sitting more behind. Medium canter then back into travers to walk trans. I do struggle to get him quicker though. Not sure if it's just big horse syndrome or just him and me?
Anyway got this one at the end: and thank goodness I stopped after it as it felt reasonable and rewarded him for it. I hate it when I miss a good change and then miss the chance to tell him he was good.
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