2nd Opinion?

[Hayburner]

I had my horse diagnosed by a specialist through x-rays, ultrasound, lameness locator and a nerve block. Her injury is significant and could be career ending.

She's on stall rest and her treatment for now is blistering - then a re-check in 5 months.

I feel I'm just not doing enough - that maybe there is something else out there to aid her in healing and healing sound!

While I don't want to create an issue with the current specialist, nor do I doubt his expertise, would it be wise to consult with another specialist to see if anything more can be done?

Has anyone done just a consult by sending the findings to another vet for their confidential opinion?

[musical comedy]

Yes, I have done 2nd, 3rd, and even 4th opinions on things, even though I respect my primary vet and all others I've used. Sometimes we just have to touch all bases because nobody knows everything.

I have used Dr. Grisel from Atlanta Equine several times for consultation on xrays, etc. I really like him. He will discuss things over the phone with you and his prices are reasonable. http://www.atlantaequine.com/pages/online_cons.html

Did you post about what your horse's issue is? You mention blistering. Is this stifle related? Is this the new mare you bought or her foal?

[Chisamba]

I agree with Musical Comedy, it is often worth another opinion. I am open with my vet about it, he will sometimes suggest it himself. Do you mind sharing what the problem is. I am sorry for your bad news.

[Hayburner]

Actually, my regular vet referred me to the specialist, but now I'm thinking I should get a 2nd opinion for treatment.

Yes, it's my new mare, not the foal. We have so little real ride time and now this. Crap, I never even cantered her, only walk Trot.

I had such hopes for a great learning summer. I had planned to take her to a trainer to work on balance, rhythm and the canter and boom that dream is over.

It's not the stifle, it's the ankle, within the joint. A small non-ablative fracture near the collateral ligament, bone chip, 2 bone spurs, one is calcified. And god only knows what else she did to it
Apparently, she hyperextended on the lunge and boom she was lame. Possibly, she initially hurt it during turnout then when we lunged her I saw her take a bad step.

I am sick over this.

[Hayburner]

Thanks for link, I'll be reading through it all

[Chisamba]

I am sorry what rotten luck.

[Moutaineer]

I'm so sorry. Welcome to the "had great plans" club. None of us want to be members.

I'm just heading out to handwalk my "supposed to be going out at 3rd level this summer" guy for his allotted 15 minutes.

I'd certainly get a second opinion even if just to put your mind at rest that you are doing everything you can.

There are so many innovative healing modalities out there, and I think some vets are more Gung ho about them than others.

We are embarking on stem cell for my horse's ACL injury. Freaking expensive, but my very up to date sport horse vet thinks it gives him the best chance for a positive outcome, so what are you going to do?

[Quelah]

Second opinion yes, never a bad idea. I definitely would in your case. I got a second opinion on a friend's mare one time, saved the mare a surgery and a year's layup. She died years later of basically old age, with the condition that the surgery was recommended for still present, as it never really was a problem. I'll pm you.

[Srhorselady]

Definitely second opinion. If there are other options you want to know about them.

[Hayburner]

Thanks for the responses

It's no fun being a member of the "had great plans " club.

I do really want to explore every treatment option available in hopes that she does fully recover and is sound.

From now until September, I am instructed to paint reducing blistering agent on the ankle. Also give her Vitacal and Equithrive. No turnout unless she really needs it and only controlled and a small paddock area. She will go for a recheck in September, at that time if she's healed ( I think, the fracture) they may start irap on her.

If, irap would help her heal now, I'd prefer to do it or something else before September.

Also, any treatments/tests I get before June 3rd would be covered by my insurance. After that, I will not have coverage on that leg.

[khall]

Definitely take her to another specialist. Are you anywhere near Rood and Riddle? If not do a search for big clinics with sports medicine vets.

I too am in the camp of "plans for continuing to ride my horse who right now is retired due to NCS". It sucks and I am sorry. These horses can break our hearts that is for sure.

[Hayburner]

Khall - Rood and Riddle would be about 7 hours.

I wonder if I just had the films sent for evaluation - if they could tell me if anything else can done for her.

This situation just consumes my every minute - my brain never stops thinking about it. I'm obsessed with fear, sadness, and thoughts that there has to be something that can help her. It breaks my heart to keep her stall bound, there are days I don't' even want to see her as it hurts too much. I leave her feeling guilty and sad.

My gut Is telling me, begging me to keep looking - do right by her. Our guts usually know best. Even if another vet says the same thing - at least in my heart and my mind, I would feel a little better. That I turned over every stone to give her the best chance of a full recovery.

I doubt that mentally I would make it till September before I crash. She's already been in since February when this whole thing started. I beat myself up that we hand walked her, lightly lunged her and that was the wrong thing to do with this injury. But, I did what I was told. I doubt it made it any worse, but it probably didn't help either.

[highoctane]

Have you looked into giving her turmeric? I've heard amazing recovery stories.

[musical comedy]

Khall - Rood and Riddle would be about 7 hours.
I wonder if I just had the films sent for evaluation - if they could tell me if anything else can done for her.

How about the Cleveland Clinic and Dr. Genovese? I think you can send the films for evaluation to several doctors if you like. Are they on CD? If so, make CD copies. Often we can send the jpeg images email. I would definitely send them to a couple top vets for consult. You can call the vet practice first and get approval to send them. People do that all the time with xrays and U/S.

This situation just consumes my every minute - my brain never stops thinking about it. I'm obsessed with fear, sadness, and thoughts that there has to be something that can help her. It breaks my heart to keep her stall bound, there are days I don't even want to see her as it hurts too much. I leave her feeling guilty and sad.

It probably doesn't help when others say they've btdt, but I definitely understand being consumed with worry over the health of a horse. It's awful to want to help and don't know what to do. Be thankful that at least she isn't in great pain; only stall bound for a while.

[Hayburner]

Musical, I think I will call, get the scans and see if New Bolton or Rood & Riddle can evaluate them for me.

[Quelah]

Hayburner did you get my email?

[Hayburner]

HI Quelah - I did but, it didn't come through on my DDBB message page. It came through on my home email. I typed a response - tried to send it and Boom it didn't go through.
I'll try again tonite

[Quelah]

Ok!

[redsoxluvr]

i would definitely get a second opinion. I had a second, and later a third opinion on my Deuxdle after his injury.
The second opinion was about a week after his injury, and the third was probably 6-9 months later.
Both looked at his records first. I took the xrays and ultra sounds in to the second opinion, and the third
I emailed and did a phone consult as he was some distance away.

The second opinion cost me $50, and the third was free. He originally had said it would be like $50 or something,
but once he got my information he said he felt like he couldn't charge me to tell me we were screwed.

[Hayburner]

Sorry Redsoxluvr that your outcome was not positive...

I have contacted Atlanta Equine to review the findings.

I have been given a vet at OSU - but, as of yet, I don't know if they would look at the findings and consult from them or require a visit.

[musical comedy]

FWIW, my vet was here last week and I asked about the blistering. I didn't have you exact diagnosis handy to read to him, but I asked if he ever used blistering for a fracture. The answer was 'never'. As I thought, he only used blistering for stifles. Do you know why your vet used blistering?

[Hayburner]

Musical - Thanks for asking your vet about blistering. The blistering is not for the fracture, spurs, or chip, I believe it is for the calcification in the collateral ligament .

Causing an injury to heal an injury...I still haven't painted the ankle - I still don't feel good about doing it.

Thank God she's still staying sane in her stall, Yes, I'm knocking on wood.....

[musical comedy]

Hayburner, how is your mare doing?

[Hayburner]

Hi Musical, we started Irap 2 weeks ago.

We plan to re-X-ray the fracture in another 3-4 weeks to see if it's healing. Typically, vet said 60 days of stall rest and it should be healed. At this point we don't know if the fracture, the bone chip or the spurs are creating the lameness. The. Next step may be to add shockwave.

I have not taken her out of her stall except for the vet and the farrier. All and all she's doing remarkable well in her stall. I'm sure all hell will break loose when we do bring her out to test her lameness.

Fingers crossed that all this helps her regain soundness.

Thanks for checking in on her.

[Tarlo Farm]

Blistering.... bleh. Primitive IMHO. Fingers crossed for you.

[Hayburner]

Tarlo - That's why I've held off doing the blistering. The agent that he gave me is not super strong, but I still don't feel comfortable doing it, when there are newer methods to treat/heal injuries. Naturally, the Irap won't help the bone heal, but it will help with the collateral ligament and any other inflammation she has going on.

The ankle is never swollen or warm, so maybe that's a good sign.

I have added a supplement called DuraPlex by KER to keep her bones healthy while she's on all this gosh darn stall rest!

[texsuze]

Had 3 opinions (all concurred) on my gelding before deciding to retire him a few years back, although today, with his fruitloop behavior in the pasture, you'd never know he had a problem He had ESWT (shock wave) but I did not find it to be helpful in his situation, FWIW. These guys just seem born to get injured.

[Hayburner]

Texsuze - Can you share what type of injury your retired gelding had?

[Chisamba]

When Kimba had her fracture I did clicker training 2x a day. I taught her to touch an object then moved it all around the stall in a hide and seek way. It taught me a lot about timing and extinction. Good luck with the healing.

[texsuze]

HayB, no (known) injury, just initially off-and-on lameness, over a few months, which then didn't resolve. Radiographs were showing some spurs in a front pastern which didn't look that problematic. There was also some calcification of, I believe, the DDFT on the opposite front foot. Best described in general terms as arthritic lameness.