Anyone in NC or TX?

[highoctane]

Hubby and I are fast-tracking our escape from WA, moving up the timeline to within the next 3 years. Hubby is from VA originally and is in the pet supply industry as a merchandising manager. I'm a military brat and have lived all over, but I'm most at home on the Right Coast. I work in admin as an accounting assistant. Both of us just want to live a comfortable life in a bigger house on property, if we can afford it. We're looking at NC and northern TX right now as possibilities. I know both areas can be horsey...but what about general costs? I'm finding little info about boarding costs...but in reality, my 25yo may not be around to make the move with us . I hear property taxes and traffic can be bad in TX - is this true? I'm also finding that most boarding barns only have outdoor arenas. Do only high-end stables have indoors?

Our first concern, of course, is finding jobs...and a rental within decent commuting distance of said jobs. Both of our commutes currently are on the horrid side of awful, so a 30min commute is VERY doable for both of us. Neither of us mind living in the sticks.

Any opinions or thoughts are MUCH appreciated!!

[Tsavo]

Well I like Raleigh but I think the mountains of NC would be more suited to horses given it doesn't get quite as hot/humid. Raleigh has an excellent standard of living. You really don't need an indoor in Raleigh but a covered arena is very handy.

In re costs, the further you get outside Raleigh the more the costs come down as is the case for all cities. And Raleigh is not without traffic by the way but it isn't that bad (says this girl who grew up in NYC).

I don't have any info on TX but can ask a friend who lives in Grapevine who has several horses if you like.

[piedmontfields]

Where in NC? I lived there (triangle area) for 20+years before moving to E TN. Prices vary by location. If you live out a bit, that helps. Overall, NC economy has had some shocks and prices have been checked appropriately (board and real estate). Frankly, I could easily board at a high end place in the Triangle for what I pay in not so posh E TN (for a great barn).

Taxes are public information and easily checked on property. NC has state tax; TX does not. Sounds like you need to do some research.

Good luck!

[zevida]

There is no state income tax in Texas, which I think makes property taxes a little higher. I have heard that the state also won't give you an agriculture exception just for horses, so that can also make property taxes higher.

In North Texas you have to be really careful about location, as some areas have sandy loam base and others have black clay base. You do not want black clay property, it gets very slick and makes turn out a challenge in the wet season.

I think a boarding barn with a covered or indoor is by definition a higher end barn. I struggled to find boarding in the DFW area that had good turnout + good care + good riding facilities and was within 45-60 minutes of work and home. YMMV.

[highoctane]

I don't have any info on TX but can ask a friend who lives in Grapevine who has several horses if you like.

If you could, that would be very kind, thank you!

[highoctane]

Taxes are public information and easily checked on property. NC has state tax; TX does not. Sounds like you need to do some research.

Good luck!

I am just starting our research, thank you. Both NC and TX sales tax rates are much lower than WA - depending on our spending, we could either match the total tax amount paid in NC with what we pay currently in WA, or even save.

TX's property taxes are over double what we pay here, shockingly - but I'm finding that in some areas garbage service is included with residency. For instance: If we lived in Irving, we would pay about $30/mo for water/sewer/garbage. Currently, we pay $160/mo for the same services in WA .

[highoctane]

There is no state income tax in Texas, which I think makes property taxes a little higher. I have heard that the state also won't give you an agriculture exception just for horses, so that can also make property taxes higher.

In North Texas you have to be really careful about location, as some areas have sandy loam base and others have black clay base. You do not want black clay property, it gets very slick and makes turn out a challenge in the wet season.

I think a boarding barn with a covered or indoor is by definition a higher end barn. I struggled to find boarding in the DFW area that had good turnout + good care + good riding facilities and was within 45-60 minutes of work and home. YMMV.

Excellent information, thank you! I'm kind of leaning away from the DFW just because it seems too big of a huge metropolis for us (we're not city folk by any stretch). But we need to go where the jobs are so...<sigh>.

[Abby Kogler]

I loved living in Summerfield/Greensboro NC. Easy winters, better summers than Raleigh. Southern Pines is great with sandy year round natural footing. I also like Advance and Mocksville.

I have dear friends in Granbury TX, Austin, and Houston. Really terrible summers. I would never have horses there. Most pros I know do summer circuits elsewhere. I took a horse in from a friend in Houston; the horse had terrible allergies and there is apparently some type of lung/respiratory fungal thing that they can get....no. Just no.

NC would be my choice in a second but the further inland the better.

[piedmontfields]

I am just starting our research, thank you. Both NC and TX sales tax rates are much lower than WA - depending on our spending, we could either match the total tax amount paid in NC with what we pay currently in WA, or even save.

Are sales taxes a major part of the overall taxes you pay? I ask this in all seriousness, as they are a very low portion of taxes for us, even in a high sales tax state. For higher income households, property, state (if applicable) and earnings/investment taxes are generally more important considerations from a tax POV. I don't know the case in TX but in NC (and in TN where I currently live), property taxes can vary quite a bit by county. It's very school system related.

Property tax look up (for specific real estate listings for example) is usually managed in NC by a county website/database. This is easily found with searching, depending on the location. For jobs, in NC I would assume that you would be looking at Charlotte or Raleigh-Durham metro areas (but maybe also the Triad area of Winston-Salem-High Point-Greensboro). It is possible to have a 30 minute commute, depending on your specific locations, but close would also come with a higher property price. For ex., we used to live on acreage in Orange County NC. My DH had a 40 minute commute to Durham and I had a 20 minute commute to Chapel Hill---a pretty good situation for the area.

Overall, we would be happy to live there again.

[demi]

High octane, is central Texas a possibility? It’s a lot different than DFW.

[Ponichiwa]

Texas resident here, in the greater Houston area (which is, btw, massive).

Commuting here is rough. This town gets to work early and stays late; rush hours are 3+ hrs long on both ends of the day, depending on where you are. Uninsured drivers are a huge problem in TX so auto insurance may give you some sticker shock.

Property taxes vary based on school district and county; there's no state property tax (see here for the TX Comptroller site). The state gets its income from commercial activity (namely, oil & gas extraction) and sales tax (8.25% on most items).

There's a really healthy horse community in N TX (Dallas/Ft Worth area), especially near McKinney (has lots of hunter/jumper, dressage, reining, and some QH stuff). Pro: high-quality veterinarians and farriers; con: expensive. Going board rates at the barns with good trainers is north of $1k/month.

Houston is similar. Barns that are close to the city are either expensive or have minimal turnout or both; go further away and your options open up but you may suffer for quality of care, depending on where you go. Summers are tough but if you work, you're not going to be riding before 5pm anyway (see previous comments re: rush hour, etc.).

[khall]

Abby that would be equine nasopharyngeal cicatrix syndrome, quite familiar with it and can be some nasty stuff. Pretty bad in TX this year especially after the drought then hurricane.

[Ponichiwa]

Abby that would be equine nasopharyngeal cicatrix syndrome, quite familiar with it and can be some nasty stuff. Pretty bad in TX this year especially after the drought then hurricane.

Agreed.

It's also been cropping up in NC and FL: http://www.performanceequinevets.com/we ... awareness/

[highoctane]

I loved living in Summerfield/Greensboro NC. Easy winters, better summers than Raleigh. Southern Pines is great with sandy year round natural footing. I also like Advance and Mocksville.

I have dear friends in Granbury TX, Austin, and Houston. Really terrible summers. I would never have horses there. Most pros I know do summer circuits elsewhere. I took a horse in from a friend in Houston; the horse had terrible allergies and there is apparently some type of lung/respiratory fungal thing that they can get....no. Just no.

NC would be my choice in a second but the further inland the better.

Greensboro is at the top of my list. I think I saw a large equestrian barn in Mocksville online.

I should clarify: I don't mind traveling far to a great barn. I'm more concerned with cost of living and commute than anything else.

[highoctane]

High octane, is central Texas a possibility? It’s a lot different than DFW.

Maybe? I don't want to get too far south due to the heat (I don't mind it, but hubby will). I think Houston is way too far south for us.

[highoctane]

Texas resident here, in the greater Houston area (which is, btw, massive).

Commuting here is rough. This town gets to work early and stays late; rush hours are 3+ hrs long on both ends of the day, depending on where you are. Uninsured drivers are a huge problem in TX so auto insurance may give you some sticker shock.

Property taxes vary based on school district and county; there's no state property tax (see here for the TX Comptroller site). The state gets its income from commercial activity (namely, oil & gas extraction) and sales tax (8.25% on most items).

There's a really healthy horse community in N TX (Dallas/Ft Worth area), especially near McKinney (has lots of hunter/jumper, dressage, reining, and some QH stuff). Pro: high-quality veterinarians and farriers; con: expensive. Going board rates at the barns with good trainers is north of $1k/month.

Houston is similar. Barns that are close to the city are either expensive or have minimal turnout or both; go further away and your options open up but you may suffer for quality of care, depending on where you go. Summers are tough but if you work, you're not going to be riding before 5pm anyway (see previous comments re: rush hour, etc.).

Car insurance rates are on my list to check, so thank you for the heads up! I'm hoping my insurance agent can get me some comparison quotes if I give him zip codes.

So it sounds like in order to work w/in 30 minutes of home (our goal), we'd have to live in-city, if we chose the DFW area?

Turnout is a must for me, so sounds like I'd have to go further out. I'm assuming northern TX has more pastureland than southern? Thank you for the tips, this is so much great info!!

[highoctane]

Are sales taxes a major part of the overall taxes you pay? I ask this in all seriousness, as they are a very low portion of taxes for us, even in a high sales tax state. For higher income households, property, state (if applicable) and earnings/investment taxes are generally more important considerations from a tax POV. I don't know the case in TX but in NC (and in TN where I currently live), property taxes can vary quite a bit by county. It's very school system related.

Property tax look up (for specific real estate listings for example) is usually managed in NC by a county website/database. This is easily found with searching, depending on the location. For jobs, in NC I would assume that you would be looking at Charlotte or Raleigh-Durham metro areas (but maybe also the Triad area of Winston-Salem-High Point-Greensboro). It is possible to have a 30 minute commute, depending on your specific locations, but close would also come with a higher property price. For ex., we used to live on acreage in Orange County NC. My DH had a 40 minute commute to Durham and I had a 20 minute commute to Chapel Hill---a pretty good situation for the area.

Overall, we would be happy to live there again.

If we add the high property tax and the (slightly) less sales tax of TX, we would lose or possibly break even. While NC has an income tax, both property taxes and sales taxes are substantially lower than where we are. We don't have kids, so schools aren't that important - besides setting the "tone" of the town so to speak. Both areas are still listed as having better costs of living, though. COL isn't everything to us, but it does greatly affect our decision. I'm mainly running away from the weather and the political mess.

Would you say that your commute times were abnormally low or about the average? We don't mind living out in the sticks with a slightly longer commute - as long as we're in an area & home that we love.

[piedmontfields]

We had rather good commute times for living in a rural area in the triangle of NC.

I don't know your politics and what you are running from, but NC politics are fairly terrifying these day IMO. But that is for another forum!

[Josette]

I've been researching states for retirement locations but some of these sites may offer you tax type information. I stumbled upon this reply from a poster comparing NC to FL.

"I have lived in both NC and Florida, there are a few things that really upset the tax battle between the two. North Carolina vehicle tax and tags you will end up paying a luxury tax on each vehicle my 06 ram 2500 was over $400 a year on taxes, and another $230 for weighted tags annually. Florida same truck $125 a year for tags, no taxes. My car 2011 BMW north Carolina luxury tax $285, tags $165. Florida $46. Now some other things they fail to tell you, some city’s and county’s will tax your pets. Dogs by size and breed from $15 to $120 a year, cats spayed $15, intact $45. And just between those two taxes it would up the Balance of taxes Florida is much cheaper tax wise than north or south Carolina."

https://www.topretirements.com/blog/cat ... eat-towns/

top right corner you can research by state. Also this site. http://www.city-data.com/

[Ponichiwa]

Car insurance rates are on my list to check, so thank you for the heads up! I'm hoping my insurance agent can get me some comparison quotes if I give him zip codes.

So it sounds like in order to work w/in 30 minutes of home (our goal), we'd have to live in-city, if we chose the DFW area?

Turnout is a must for me, so sounds like I'd have to go further out. I'm assuming northern TX has more pastureland than southern? Thank you for the tips, this is so much great info!!

You may also want to check spots like Tyler, TX (NE corner) or Waco. While they are less metropolitan than Houston and DFW, you don't have to go nearly as far for pastures. Not sure what the boarding situation looks like in either city, but Tyler has the Texas Rose Horse Park which hosts quite a few shows, clinics, and events. I imagine there's got to be some nearby horse infrastructure (boarding, training, farriers, etc.) to support it.

Texas is hot, and it really doesn't matter if you're on the north side or south side. The further west you go, the drier it gets. Houston is humid, Dallas is dry-- both are unpleasant when it's north of 95F, which is what it is for most of the summer. Dallas area does get warmer than Houston on average in the summers; high humidity does have a bit of a moderating effect on temperatures.

Punchline is that it's usually easier for Houston and Central TX to source hay for relatively cheap as compared to the Dallas area.

As far as commute goes... I've not commuted in Dallas but it's got quite the sprawl. For fun, take a look at this map fight:
of DFW vs New Hampshire. It's a big place.

[demi]

We’ve lived 35-40 miles NW of Austin for 21 years. DH is a native Texan and I am from Michigan. We have 30 acres with lots of trees and we love it, in spite of the hot summers. Some horses do ok in the heat but not all. I designed my barn and pastures especially to minimize the heat. We have a moniter type barn with extra doors and windows for the best ventilation. The aisle runs north and south to catch the breeze and my farrier and vet love it. All of the stalls have front and back doors that open to the aisle as well as to paddocks with trees. There are lots of management things one can do to minimize the effects of the heat but it takes planning. I dont have a covered arena so if I want to ride in the summer I have to do it early in the morning. Even then, I only give them light work, but a lot can be done at the walk.

There are a lot of dressage trainers around here. You can check out CTDS and Austin Dressage Unlimited. There are lots of trainers with covered arenas.

Pasture is very important to me and there are lots of boarding barns in my area with good pasture. Land is still available but it is growing very fast around here. We couldn’t even see our closest neighbor 10 years ago, but now houses have built up on two sides. I use to be able to ride on a 365 acre cow pasture next door but now it is an upscale housing development.

Pasture west of I-35 has a lot of trees and rocks and is typical hill country. To the east there are few rocks and not as many trees, but some areas have black dirt that can make turnout a problem in the wet weather.

[highoctane]

I've been researching states for retirement locations but some of these sites may offer you tax type information. I stumbled upon this reply from a poster comparing NC to FL.

"I have lived in both NC and Florida, there are a few things that really upset the tax battle between the two. North Carolina vehicle tax and tags you will end up paying a luxury tax on each vehicle my 06 ram 2500 was over $400 a year on taxes, and another $230 for weighted tags annually. Florida same truck $125 a year for tags, no taxes. My car 2011 BMW north Carolina luxury tax $285, tags $165. Florida $46. Now some other things they fail to tell you, some city’s and county’s will tax your pets. Dogs by size and breed from $15 to $120 a year, cats spayed $15, intact $45. And just between those two taxes it would up the Balance of taxes Florida is much cheaper tax wise than north or south Carolina."

https://www.topretirements.com/blog/cat ... eat-towns/

top right corner you can research by state. Also this site. http://www.city-data.com/

Ugh - yes - I came across the ugly vehicle registration/personal property tax thing the other day. Needless to say, I'm disappointed...we own 5 vehicles plus a trailer. I think I estimated that NC would charge us over $3000 a year just in taxes for them...then an additional $150-200 in registration fees . We currently pay about $500/year total for registration fees. Grrrrr...

Ponichiwa - I'll look into those areas - thank you!!

[texsuze]

Echoing mostly what Demi has mentioned. I'm 2 hours west of Austin (1 hour NW of San Antonio); previously lived 14 years in Dallas and grew up in the Houston area.

You could consider property east of Dallas if your work was Dallas-based. Sprawl continues heading that way but still small acreages around. Lots and lots of barns between Dallas and Ft. Worth and especially north of D/FW. Check with the Dallas Dressage Club for some details dallasdressageclub.wildapricot.org The City of Dallas has a Trinity River Park master plan in progress; I've heard there will be equestrian trails and maybe a boarding facility (?), but you'd need to google that.

Also check with Ft. Worth Dressage Club http://www.fortworthdressageclub.com Remember, Dallas and Ft. Worth are two completely and totally different cities, although they seem to meld due to freeway systems and all the cities in between them.

Unless you can handle humidity, best to really think whether Houston might or might not work. I grew up there and still love Houston, but I'm used to traffic and lots of driving. IMHO the drivers in Houston are WAY nicer than Dallas' drivers.

Central Texas is variable. The further west of Austin you go, the dressage barns dry up, so if dressage is your focus, think about that although there are several HJ barns and boarding facilities. Having said that, I was taking lessons from a superb dressage trainer, BHS member and disciple of JC Racinet and PK--she is just a 20 minute trailer ride from me! Like finding an emerald in a gravel pit! Soils within my county vary from sandy loam to more clay type with surface stones (where I live). Good thing is you'll rarely see snow and will likely have many excellent riding days in winter, based on 10 years living right here. I have a reliable, constant source of good quality coastal hay, and I've always seen alfalfa in my hay guy's barn although I don't feed it.

Where you live, whether in city limits or in county, plus school systems and the county appraisal districts themselves all play a big role in property tax valuation. I feel the AD's vary greatly throughout the state, especially in the rural counties. Depending upon the size of your acreage, you can apply for agricultural tax valuation and reduce the property tax burden IF you meet the necessary criteria. Worth investigating before buying, since there may be an advantage to having 20 acres instead of 6...But simply having a horse on your property will not qualify (we do wildlife management on our ranch--I'm working on those documents right now). https://comptroller.texas.gov/taxes/pro ... /index.php

Re: politics, well, let's just say that the rest of America tends to paint all of us Texans with the same brush; I'm here to tell you it ain't necessarily so!

[piedmontfields]

Re: politics, well, let's just say that the rest of America tends to paint all of us Texans with the same brush; I'm here to tell you it ain't necessarily so!

Absolutely agree!

BTW, when we had 2 vehicles in NC, I recall paying annual auto property tax of something like at most $350 per vehicle, and much less if the vehicle was old (like $70 on a 10 year old car). I think a new car is now a max of $450 the first year. But we didn't have very expensive cars.

When I moved to TN, I kept asking about how and when I pay my auto tax. They had no idea what I was talking about. Here in TN, registration is $25 per vehicle annually.

[highoctane]

BTW, when we had 2 vehicles in NC, I recall paying annual auto property tax of something like at most $350 per vehicle, and much less if the vehicle was old (like $70 on a 10 year old car). I think a new car is now a max of $450 the first year. But we didn't have very expensive cars.

When I moved to TN, I kept asking about how and when I pay my auto tax. They had no idea what I was talking about. Here in TN, registration is $25 per vehicle annually.

As far as I can tell through my research at NCDOR, the property tax on vehicles is based on value - a variation of Blue Book value. We have two classic Mustangs valued at $55k...our total vehicle value is around $90k. I have a hard time swallowing $3000 every year when that I paid $2400 for one of my daily drivers just last year. Coming from tax-happy WA, taxes of any sort make me cringe lol.

[piedmontfields]

Sounds like you have a lifestyle choice with the Mustangs! At least it is cheaper than horses.

BTW, NC also requires an annual inspection (which must be passed) for any road vehicles. I was shocked when TN did not require that (in TN that vehicle driving wildly around you may or may not have working brakes or lights).

If you want to avoid taxes in general and have a lower COL, FL, TX and TN would be places to investigate...

[Jan & PJ]

I live in north TX about an hour from the DFW area and about 30 minutes from McKinney. We got unlucky and got in the black dirt area. It's not great but doable. I would prefer the sandy loam area west of I-35 but we are dealing with it. Well, I think that until I get over there to do something and run into all the sand burs and sand everywhere. Summers are hot and winters are cold. Seems to get more extreme every year. We live on 56 acres and between our advancing age and wildlife exemption (same as ag exemption) our property taxes are around $1500 annually. There are a lot of nice small towns around. You could probably find something that would work well for you just outside of the McKinney, Plano area and still have a decent commute to work if you find a job in those areas. Aubrey is pretty much the horse capitol with lots of dressage boarding barns. Lots and lots of horse properties around there and endless horse shows and other opportunities. Fairly close to Ft. Worth. Another area to look at would be Decatur. Close to the LBJ grasslands for trail/endurance riding and Decatur is growing by leaps and bounds. Here is one of the boarding barns in Aubrey that I'm familiar with and have a couple of friends who board there. http://www.winterhavenranch.org/stallions.html
Good luck!

[Racetrackreject]

I'm in East Texas, which is sort of a different animal than a lot of Texas. We're kind of the Southern Pines of Texas- it's hilly with evergreen forests and sandy loam soil. I'm an hour from a large city, either North or South, but the traffic to get to either is easy and rarely ever congested. It's cheap, it's green, it's not as humid as where I grew up (Coastal Texas only 2ish hours away), and pasture grows knee deep in the summers, hay is generally plentiful, and my horse has yet to spontaneously combust from heat.

When you said North Texas, I thought Panhandle because that is North Texas to me, but I soon realized you meant North Central Texas, the metropolitan area. If I were looking to move here, I would look at the distinct physical regions of Texas, see which one most closely matches what I'm looking for, then investigate it a little deeper with horse keeping and employment in mind. I'm likely a bit far South for what you want, but I second the suggestion above of Tyler. I love Tyler, except that there is really only one way around the city, the loop, which is congested pretty much 24/7. BUT, the outskirts of Tyler are lovely, the weather is good, and it's closer to horse things.

One thing to remember is that Texas is huge, really larger than most people can imagine until they get here. Things can be further away than what you are used to but no one here thinks twice about it.

I like East Texas because it's pretty and imo, great for horse keeping/nature/wildlife viewing, but there are frustrating things too.

As for the cost of living in Texas, it's highly dependent on where you live. My area has a very low cost of living. I bought my 15 acre farm with 4 stall barn, arena, welded pipe fencing, pond, paddocks with sheds, hay barn, and 3 bedroom, 2 bath house for under $175k. My pastures were lovely fertilized hay fields that may neighbor baled a few times a year. He would take my flatbed trailer, load it with hay, park it back under the tractor barn, and keep the rest for himself, which was fine since he paid to fertilize it himself.

Grass hay can be purchased when baled, out of the field, for $4-5/bale. Barn kept hay, in winter, can get as high as $10, but that's equal with feed store pricing and you can find it cheaper. Round bales go for $35-50 for grass hay, that's horse hay which you have to specify as there is a lot of cowy hay around. Alfalfa can be found and bought for $16-22 (75-90lb bale) a bale, but it's shipped in from out of state. My horse is on full board at an Eventing barn 25 minutes away for $350.00/month and that's all-inclusive with premium senior feed. He is in a large 2ish acre paddock with shelter and one other horse. He is brought in in inclimate weather, fed twice a day, blanketed/unblanketed, held for farrier/vet, hayed throughout the day as needed, medicated/given supplements, the full deal. The barn owner is a BHS certified instructor and pony club instructor.

[highoctane]

I was messaging back and forth last night with a friend who lives near San Antonio. He used to live up here, and hatched his escape last year. He highly recommends Texas, especially around SA. Having not spent any worthwhile length of time in TX, I'm not sure where we'll end up - but it's become #1 on our list.

Hubby is most concerned about finding jobs, of course, but everything I read online is that jobs are easily had. He's most concerned about "starting over", and I get it. I moved around so much as a kid I see it as an adventure, but he's skittish...WA is only the second place he's ever lived. I'm hoping to make enough money off the sale of our house that we can rent somewhere for awhile and not panic too much about finding decent jobs. My struggle is looking at job ads and cringing at the pay...but then I realize that a $38k job there is a $50k job here!

[texsuze]

High-o, if you and hubs want to come down to explore central TX ya'll are welcome to stay here on our place for a visit We're an hour west of S.A. PM me if/when you might want to think about it.

[highoctane]

High-o, if you and hubs want to come down to explore central TX ya'll are welcome to stay here on our place for a visit We're an hour west of S.A. PM me if/when you might want to think about it.

Thank you Texsuze - I will definitely keep that in mind!!