Pony trot?

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demi
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Re: Pony trot?

Postby demi » Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:57 pm

Rosie B wrote:Demi I read a great article recently from dressage today. I think it was by Ute Graf but I could be wrong.

She said that you almost never ask for 100%. Instead you ask for 75, or 80% at most during your training. Knowing where that line is though is the hard part. The way I look at it is "how was that compared to the usual?" If it was significantly better, I take a break or do something else. If it was about the same as usual, I try to make it a bit better, then I take a break.


Good information, and good food for thought, thanks. I don't subscribe to DT but I like Ute Graf's approach very much.

demi
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Re: Pony trot?

Postby demi » Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:10 pm

Chisamba wrote:To me a pony trot requires a horse to be more off the leg than a working trot. A pony trot should be slow enough that the horse would find walk easier. But you tell it it may not break, it should be harder work, not less work than a working trot.

So it keeps the horse tuned to both the leg and the connection


I think many horses would rather walk than keep the pony trot up. Rocky is of the temperament that her evasion of pony trot (at least for the last couple of rides) is to offer canter. She goes into a slow but powerful canter which I am able to diffuse with 2-3 half halts back down to the pony trot. That may explain why she did better Tuesday when I allowed her to go back and forth from pony trot to working trot (IOW, her energetic temperament is better satisfied with more activity vs. walking). I didnt have time to ride yesterday but am really interested to see what she does today!

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Re: Pony trot?

Postby Josette » Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:35 pm


Tsavo
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Re: Pony trot?

Postby Tsavo » Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:42 pm

That's a great article. I think Graf has become somewhat of a regular contributor along with Ingrid Klimke. I read anything those two write and try to incorporate their ideas in my work.

demi
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Re: Pony trot?

Postby demi » Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:46 pm



I don't think this is the article that Rosie mentioned, as it doesn't say anything about almost never asking for 100% from the horse, instead ask for 75, or 80% at most...

I did really like the article you linked, Josette, thank you! I bookmarked it to read again when I start working on stretching again. I think the article would be a good start to a whole thread on stretching. Especially liked that Ute Graf acknowledges that some horses learn it very quickly and others can take years! She describes several different approaches to the method and this would be interesting to see the differences in the horses and riders on the DDBB training forum.

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Re: Pony trot?

Postby piedmontfields » Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:49 pm

Rosie B wrote: I just wanted to make it clear that we were not forced to do anything, other than stay at the far end of the arena, for 30 minutes. I CHOSE to ride him like I did during that time... and I'm not sure what else I could have done to get him looser while stuck on a circle because he really seems to need the bending lines. I did lots of transitions, and tried to get him stretching, while letting him pick his tempo, but it was not effective as my warmups at home usually are. And in hindsight maybe that wasn't a realistic expectation as we were in a new place (and an indoor) that he is not used to.


Rosie, just a note to say that I, too, really grapple with this warm-up challenge at new sites. One strategy that has offered me some success is after 10 minutes or so of walking (even on a circle or in a portion of an arena), I move into lateral walk work. This can be easy, like leg yields and squares, or a bit more challenging. If Emi feels ready, I'll even do it on a circle (shoulder in shoulder out, renvers, travers). Even if I only do a few minutes of trot and barely canter, this kind of warm up can get her feeling fairly loose in a small area. So then when we start to trot in our lesson it is "more normal" :lol: !

BTW, another reason I love JJ Tate's teaching is that she is so good at teaching you how to do a helpful warm-up for that particular horse. It is a fairly integral part of her lessons, and students who ride with her two days in a row are always able to apply what they learned about the warm-up in day 1 to day 2.

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Re: Pony trot?

Postby Linden16 » Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:00 pm

Rosie B wrote: I just wanted to make it clear that we were not forced to do anything, other than stay at the far end of the arena, for 30 minutes. I CHOSE to ride him like I did during that time... and I'm not sure what else I could have done to get him looser while stuck on a circle because he really seems to need the bending lines. I did lots of transitions, and tried to get him stretching, while letting him pick his tempo, but it was not effective as my warmups at home usually are. And in hindsight maybe that wasn't a realistic expectation as we were in a new place (and an indoor) that he is not used.


I would suggest shoulder in and counter shoulder in on that circle. It completely changes the balance of the horse and gets you riding from both legs and both reins. Remember the Circle Of Death? If you aren’t currently using it in your training, I highly suggest you start

demi
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Re: Pony trot?

Postby demi » Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:06 am

I have been doing most of our arena work in "pony trot" since this thread started. I am not strong enough to ride her in a strong trot, yet, so I lounge her in side reins for 10 minutes a few times a week and she gets a good workout by my trainer every other week. I trail ride her on a long rein at walk once a week, too.
Anyway, I think this trot that i am doing is working very well for us. The trainer is pleased with her improvement.

So here is what I am calling the pony trot:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9psUH6G6zo

Any comments are welcome. Oh, and the tail swishing we think is because she is coming into season. She is very prickly if I touch around her "parts". Trainer said give her previcox or bute. I tried the previcox and it seems to have helped.

PS. I ordered a "Cheata Trotter bra" since I saw this vid!

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Re: Pony trot?

Postby piedmontfields » Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:09 pm

Demi, I like how steady Rocky is and how organized you are. When Rocky bobbles slightly, she quickly comes back to your clear position and maintains good rhythm.

Out of curiosity, where would you put this trot on Rocky's current "scale of trots"? I think about this scale as I am very much in the mode of "dialing up" Emi's trot throughout the warm-up--and it is not a fast process, although it has sped up over time!

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Re: Pony trot?

Postby Dresseur » Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:18 pm

Demi, I personally don't think that looks like a pony trot! It has plenty of energy and seems honestly forward without running.

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Re: Pony trot?

Postby Chisamba » Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:38 pm

Dresseur wrote:Demi, I personally don't think that looks like a pony trot! It has plenty of energy and seems honestly forward without running.


agree

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Re: Pony trot?

Postby Chisamba » Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:40 pm

demi wrote:I

PS. I ordered a "Cheata Trotter bra" since I saw this vid!


they just don't make bras that can cheat my boobs out of a wobble

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Re: Pony trot?

Postby demi » Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:57 pm

Thanks Peidmont, Dresseur, and Chisamba. I value your opinions. When this thread first started, I wasn't even thinking about what "kind" of trot I was doing. The thread helped my to think about it. At one point, I thought it was a "steady, shortened trot" because of what I'd read in Podjahsky. So if it isn't a pony trot, maybe I need to start a trot thread.

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Re: Pony trot?

Postby Dresseur » Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:24 pm

Demi, I view a pony trot as a trot that shuffles and is under-powered and the stride is short as a result of that. A lot of time, those types of trots don't have a clear rhythm. Pony trot usually has a negative connotation.

The Podjahsky passage reads as such:

While the best way to relax the horse and loosen his muscles is by a steady shortened trot, the rider sitting with the reins as long as possible, this exercise will be effective only if the horse trots with short and relaxed steps. Should he begin to drag his hindquarters out of laziness, the rider should insist on increased action of the hindquarters by riding energetically forward, though he must not cause tension by doing this. After a short period at the increased pace, he should return to the shortened steps until the horse executes them in a completely relaxed manner and gives himself up to the will of his rider. However, it is not so simple to achieve these short relaxing steps, which are necessary to improve balance, because the horse will always prefer the walk to the strenuous shortened trot.

The steps of this relaxing trot should be as short as possible. Their chief object is to maintain an even tempo and a regular light contact with long reins. If the horse moves in this way, he must arch and swing his back with rhythm. This attitude should be maintained when riding circles and turns and when making transitions to the walk and again to the trot. Then the relaxed horse will go forward with energetic steps upon the increased influence of the rider's legs and will strike off into canter smoothly and without increasing the contact or changing the rhythm.


So, IMO based on Podjahsky's description, that trot is not a pony trot at all, it is still energetic and forward, just shortened so the horse is not pushed out of balance or over tempo, which would cause tension. Any hint of laziness from behind, the horse goes forward. He says that working in this shortened stride is strenuous, so I don't believe it's just a slowed down version of a trot. It's more of a school trot - which I think an earlier poster mentioned. Yours seems to be closer to a true working trot, but we also don't know what gears your horse has in his trot.

demi
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Re: Pony trot?

Postby demi » Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:55 pm

Thanks Dresseur. I just started a new thread on trot development and touched on Rocky's "gears". I will play with the gears and get some vid.

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Re: Pony trot?

Postby demi » Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:01 pm

Chisamba wrote:
demi wrote:I

PS. I ordered a "Cheata Trotter bra" since I saw this vid!


they just don't make bras that can cheat my boobs out of a wobble


Google the Cheata Trotter. I was impressed when I saw some of the before and after vids. There was a vid of an agility dog trainer that was astonishing.

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Chisamba
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Re: Pony trot?

Postby Chisamba » Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:04 am

The problem is not with the bra it's with having to breath, and not cutting. My shoulders open in the attempt

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Re: Pony trot?

Postby Chisamba » Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:16 am

It looks really interesting. I might have to try one, but they do say I would have to wear it doubled up

demi
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Re: Pony trot?

Postby demi » Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:41 pm

Chisamba wrote:It looks really interesting. I might have to try one, but they do say I would have to wear it doubled up

My first thoughts were that it would be very uncomfortable and difficult to put on. I have a regular sports bra that is easy enough to get on but is too uncomfortable to wear it all day. The Cheata however, is comfortable and surprisingly easy to get on. The only thing i had a problem with is the one little hook, but i think that is only because I have a shoulder injury that makes it difficult to put my hand behind my back.

Sorry for bringing this up on the pony trot thread...but it sorta relates! And I didnt want to start a bra thread :oops:

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Chisamba
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Re: Pony trot?

Postby Chisamba » Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:49 pm

demi wrote:
Chisamba wrote:It looks really interesting. I might have to try one, but they do say I would have to wear it doubled up

My first thoughts were that it would be very uncomfortable and difficult to put on. I have a regular sports bra that is easy enough to get on but is too uncomfortable to wear it all day. The Cheata however, is comfortable and surprisingly easy to get on. The only thing i had a problem with is the one little hook, but i think that is only because I have a shoulder injury that makes it difficult to put my hand behind my back.

Sorry for bringing this up on the pony trot thread...but it sorta relates! And I didnt want to start a bra thread :oops:

they had one that zippered front of back. i watched the how to put it on video, and it does seem like it could be difficult. but at least its low. i mean you could perhaps put id around your waist, do the hook, then slide it around and pull it up over the arms, then "arrange" it

demi
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Re: Pony trot?

Postby demi » Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:52 pm

I think that might work. (Doing the hook and then sliding it up)


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